Reply With QuoteI’m not a trigger guy. Just a mid range sub min guy.
Polishing stock accu triggers and clipping the spring have satisfied me.
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For all the modification, tweeking and cussin' in general, we all do about Savage triggers, not to mention the semi high price of replacement, Has anyone tried to adapt or fit a single or double set trigger? (Don't misunderstand, I have modified a bunch of Savage triggers and they are very shootable)
I've shot set triggers on my target and some hunting ('chucks, 'dogs and 'yotes) guns for years, I would spend $150.00 on a set trigger before I spent $85.00 on a rifle basicx (yep, I'm anal about triggers on ALL my weapons)
Is there anybody out there looking into this kind of modification?
Just wondering.
Paul in da swamp
I’m not a trigger guy. Just a mid range sub min guy.
Polishing stock accu triggers and clipping the spring have satisfied me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So, where would you find a set trigger to adapt?
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
I have found my accutrigs to be as smooth and light , repeatable after a simple spring replacement as my geissele hsm, pof, hyperfires on some of my other rifles.. maybe I just got lucky??
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I have a good set trigger on my front stuffer. I have found the accutrigger on my 12BVSS to have a better release. Maybe try one of the target accutriggers first?
FWIW, I did try a single set trigger once and did not like it. It felt funny to me, but, maybe cause the forward motion to set it was a bit weird to me.
As I said, I have several "tuned" acutriggers and after market (Timney and others) My best experience with set triggers was on my S. Sharps Quigley rifle, usually shot "Creedmoor" style. The trigger, when set, breaks clean and slick at just under a half pound, That's about as low as I can "read" reliably. (arthritis and neuropathy are getting in the way more and more lately.)
Several of my "tuned" (stoned, polished, shimmed and spring changed) stock triggers are safe (drop/ bounce test) and slick at 1.5-2.0 pounds, adjustable after market triggers do a bit better.
A "set " trigger will normally yield ~ 4 pounds pound pull when UN-set, very manageable for closer in shots. I just like to have the option to "think" the shot off, if I need to.
my AXIS in .458 SOCOM is a good candidate for a set trigger. Hogs out to 150 yards, the modified Accutrigger (3.5 pounds) is fine, but past that a lighter, crisper set trigger would be welcome. The 405 / 525 grain hand loads will kill, brutally, out past 375 yards. (yes, that takes good glass, a 20 MOA rail and some skill)
I'm currently looking at adapting a Mauser style bottom iron, (mounts the triggers) adapted to the AXIS / EDGE platform. It's a lot of work, inletting a big aluminum bar to mount the action above AND the bottom iron below it. But then, what the hell, I'm retired and bored.
Just thinking out loud here, hoping ya'll will do the same...
Paul in da swamp
I think you need to study some of these systems before you start whittlin'. Muzzle loaders and the Sharps rifle use a simple hammer and sear arrangement, where the sear holds the hammer back until the leg of the set trigger springs forward to slap the sear off the hammer notch. The Mauser trigger is a fulcrum/lever system that works much in the same way, with the sear holding the striker back on it's own, and the standard trigger just pries the sear away from the cocking piece. The set trigger version just slaps the sear to release it.
Most modern fire control systems use an "over ride" type trigger. In an over ride system, the trigger is crucial because it supports the sear to engage in the cocking piece. Once the trigger is pulled, it lets the sear get pushed away by the cocking piece. So a conventional set trigger would not work with an over ride trigger. Canjar worked around this problem by using a heavy shoe that was spring loaded, and itself was the "power" that jarred the trigger when pulled. The shoe was "set" by pushing forward, and a small trip lever protruded from the front, as the actual trigger. When it was fired, the heavy shoe sprung rearward to jar the trigger off. The problem with this , is that you needed a decent trigger pull to start with, so the shoe had enough inertia to move it. That and the problem of setting the trigger was difficult because of it's size and width, it was hard to get to because of the trigger guard. Usually a notch had to be made in the trigger guard to gain access to push it ahead.
I know that back in the 70's, Anschutz had a deal with Savage for importing their rifles and Savage actually made some 110 actions for them. The actions that Savage sent them had no triggers or fire control system, and Anschutz put their own system in place, some with set triggers. I have only heard of this and not actually seen it, but I know they're were less than 1000 units made.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
As with many things in firearms, trigger preference is a very subjective matter. Now, it’s very “normal” in the shooting world, that we learn we NEED a better trigger as a first mod to any new gun! I started modifying triggers nearly two decades ago, because like so many others I thought I needed better. And, as many others have done, I made the mistake of using a Dremel & cutting springs! Uhg! Luckily, I learned to correctly modify triggers over a few years...mainly through building 1911’s.(and I was lucky only destroying one! Remember the Dremel? Well, little too liberal on the sear hammer catch of an old Cetme I had and you end up with a rifle that doubles.., triples.., maybe goes full auto from time to time! YIKES!)
Because I learned to set up my own, I have never felt the need to purchase the expensive triggers sold. WAY overpriced IMHO, for the improvement the offer. Don’t get me wrong...I’ve used the best triggers on the planet.., Geissele, Jewel, Jard..all of them. And while some are mind blowing nice, $200, & even $300??! I can think of a whole of many other items I would rather use the money on. Because while they may be a bit nicer than my ultra tuned Accutrigger, they really aren’t THAT much nicer! As far as RifleBasix & Timney, I much prefer my tuned Accutrigger. Feels better to me. And when it comes to set triggers, while “Romantic” images flood my brain of me acting out Quigley Down Under with his 1874 Sharps, modified to fire the 45-110’s (Yee-Ha!), reality quickly sets in and I remember...”I freakin’ HATE those triggers!!” LOL! Just not a fan, is all. Even the single set.
Of course this is MY preference..as I alluded to in the beginning. Your mileage May vary.
Hi Dave, I think we may have gone to different schools together. I also was disappointed by the Factory offered, Lawyer modified, triggers. (I learned to shoot the best that came out of the "little gray building" at Quantico)
I hold an engineering degree, so I wasn't really out of my depth. Small changes on the geometry of the hammer / sear juncture can yield large benefits with trigger feel. I too ruined my share of 1911 hammers, sears and disconnector with a dremel tool and a fordom hand piece. (expensively self taught) I spent way too much time reworking AR triggers, for the feel and control I wanted. I still do my own, yet sell and install production "drop in" triggers for my customers. (they choose and pay, I try to give them the best job I can.) some I "touch up", most, I just clean, lube and install. Having the knowledge I have about triggers, and I agree, most shooters, even experienced ones, wouldn't be able to articulate what a "Good" trigger feels like to them.
I too feel that most are way overpriced for the value, However, the shyster lawyers and the "I'm gonna screw somebody to get ahead" folks have forced small manufactures to protect themselves any way they can. (usually by staying small, with shallow pockets and putting strange disclaimers in the box.)
I own and shoot a sharps copy, in .45-120, (The Quigley gun, by Shiloe) I really enjoy the single set trigger in my High wall, in 50-90. Not to say that I never pull one, slap one off, in general, or really screw the pooch on a long shot, with those tweeky, cheeky bustards, I just enjoy the process.
I just finished tweeking an Accutrigger for my latest project Edge, in 25-'06, for a P-dog hunt next spring. I just couldn't leave the stock Edge trigger under that sexy barrel, in a used Boyd's thumbhole.
I still don't have a problem waving off the "take an inch off this shotgun stock, it's too long" guys, or the "I want a half pound trigger on my 30-30, .338 Win mag, .458 Weatherby. Can you make my 10-22 select fire? or build me an M2.30 carbine, boys. I'm not smarter than them, just more life experience.
OK, I'll just crawl back under my rock now...
Paul in da swamp
Most of the Savage triggers that I have worked, are, at least to me, a thing of beauty. However, I just can't leave well enough alone sometimes.
Could not agree more! I am certainly a rookie when compared to your resume...but I am quite informed with one or two things. For this I am confident in any trigger I set up.Originally Posted by red caddy 51
We may have different preferences my friend, but I do agree with your thought process on the matter. And I very much appreciate your “try something different” yourself attitude! Cheers!
LOL. One would think, or hope at least, that this would be obvious. But apparently that is not a "given."I think you need to study some of these systems before you start whittlin'.
I believe the only afermarket set trigger made for somewhat modern rifles was the Canjar. I have several of them and they can be really sweet. Not made any more, they are of the single set variety where you can pull the trigger without setting it if you're in a hurry or set it by pulling it forward till it "cocks". When set, the touch off pressure would be measured in ounces. Bet the lawyers would have a cow if they were still making them.
I've talked with some very knowledgable people who don't like set triggers because the lock time is longer, especially for offhand competition. I like them, myself, since I'm more of a benchrest shooter these days. I have several old Ballards, Stevens and Winchester Highwalls with original double sets and close coupled single sets.
That's a name i have not heard in a while.I have several old Ballards
I was just reading about the Marlin Ballard, very interesting features and construction. I was partularly intrigued by the easy change from rim to center fire, and back.
As has been said, the lawyers would take all the fun out of it, today
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