I should blueing pen required. If I choose not to ble what are the consequences?
Just could develop some surface rust over time. But if you keep your stuff super clean like most builders, you shouldn’t really have any rust problems. Some of my guns have a few bare metal spots from time time. And never had any appreciable rust! Another thing you can do it you are worried and can’t get cold blue, just pickle the exposed metal surface to vinegar, or smear some yellow mustard on it to induce a patina. But I wouldn’t worry.Originally Posted by DesertDug
Researching cold blueing and bedding DNZ one piece scope mounts.
Got to Academy and picked up some Birchwood Super Blue. Easy enough. Clean prep. metal, wipe down, wash and repeat.
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now on to setting the headspace tomorrow when the blueing is dry.
Regarding bedding the scope rail, I am seeing that most only bed the rear section. What do you all around here think regarding bedding scoope rails.
DesertDug,
Glad to see you solved your blueing problem.
As for bedding scope rails, I personally have never experienced the need to do that.
I've had to torque the screws holding the rails and use Loc-tite on the screws to keep the screws from backing out under recoil but I have never had the need to bed the rails themselves.
I guess if the action surface or the rails themselves are not smooth enough, it might be a solution.
Personally, I would smooth the mating surfaces and then mount the rails. Now that you have the 'Super Blue', you should be able to cover any smoothing marks.
You're the only one who can tell if the rail mount will really need to be bedded.
Well heck, I had picked up a 1/16" punch, since my last one was broken and I can not get the ejector cross pin out. Which got me thinking that maybe the bolt needs to be broke down due to the firing pin. ( I am not sure this is the case or not) and I can not get the rear bolt loss at all. I have read about this from the factory. I have not had this bolt apart.
Any ideas on aproching this....
Regarding the scope mount, the marks cleaned up. There was dirt, and some oil when I removed the mount. This got me thinking that they are not mated. Is this a good working assumption?
Well busted it like I did the barrel nut.
[IMG][/IMG]but still can't get the pin t
Aright, got the cross pin out. My 1/16" punch was too large. Got a small shank drill bit out of the tool box and proceeded to snap it off while tring to punch out the cross pin. Yikes. While this was just what was needed. The remaining shaft of the drill punch out the pin and the broken piece of bit. Lot is all back together without the ejector and extractor and ready for head spacing the new barrel.
The way way tonight is going, I will wait till tomorrow.
Sounds like it’s going well Doug. Good stuff man. These are all parts of learning this stuff. It’s like anything else, ya know. “Things” aren’t always going to cooperate! But with every difficult job completed you grow in the discipline. The NEXT time you may encounter the same difficulties, you will be able to complete said much easier.
BTW, did you get a Bolt Lift, and smooth/polish the cocking pin ramp? I recommend both! Makes a huge difference in smoothness of operation. After making my own bolt lift, smoothing the ramp & a couple other tidbits, I can bring up the bolt handle with one finger, AFTER pulling the trigger.
Got this great bit of info in the savage shoots archive:2/12/2015 from @ FW Conch
Set up your toque wrench 90 dogs to your barrel nut and you do not need to account for your offset.
Here re is how I do it with bench vise, action vise and barrel wrench.
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35 foot pounds.
Rear section of DNZ one piece scoope rail is bedded. There was a noticeable difference from rear to front with straight edge and also failed the tap test.
This link was helpful.
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...ice-Bed-or-not
devcon, play dough, and kiwi shoe polished was used. I had everything already from when I bedded my 270win 110 wood Stock.
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I coulda told ya that about the torque wrench trick Doug. J/k. No, it’s a awesome you are picking these things up.
There are a lot of seasoned folks here, I am not one of them yet Dave, but with the help of the archives here I just may become one of them.I find it strange that this thread is getting so many views but only the same people like yourself are commenting. I know a lot of members here have been through all this before so none of this is new. I have only done this once before and I did a build thread like this that I use to go back to to refresh my thoughts.
I think you downplaying the value of your experiences, but most of all, you are minimizing your unique ability to portray and share it. That is the value you add, Doug.
I suspect that you are convincing some of the readers who wouldn't normally attempt what you're doing to take a shot at it.
You're adding to the information from your own perspective that is so valuable to the members who are regulars to this forum.
Thanks CFJ, I am currently sitting here scratching my head knowing my load for the same lenght barrel subtracting the crow with the change of steel. The lenght to og to lands is .002 diffence measuring 2.228" in the new barrel.
The reflection speed for the new 416R SS is 0.10409 msec. or 0.00008 msec difference. So being that the last load was for the 12th refraction that would mean I would load for a 0.00096 msec faster load and an I calculate that the that already established load?
Getting closer to being able to get it out to the range.
the DNZ Game reaper one piece scope mount almost "clicks" into place. So much so I feel I need to go back and check my long action.
Happy Independence Day to all, stay safe.
Doug,
I'm confused by your numbers.
I'm good with the chamber measurement being different by 0.002.
I regularly adjust cartridge base to ogive measurements more than that to account for differences in trim length to match exit time.
I think you lucked out on that one with the new barrel.
However, I don't understand the reflection time measurements for the new barrel.
I thought you were ordering a 27-inch 416R barrel. But then again you might have changed your mind and ordered a 26 inch barrel.
As far as I am concerned, 26-inch barrels work beautifully for the 6.5mm Creedmoor.
First, the old 12 FV 3% carbon steel, 26-inch nominal barrel is actually 25.96 because it has a 0.040 recess to the crown.
If your new barrel doesn't have a recessed crown, add 0.002 msec. to the reflection time.The Savage 12 FV barrel has a steel reflection speed of 19,107 fps so it has exit times as follows:
Add or subtract, 0.001 msec. to the exit time for each 0.020 of recess.
10th reflection = 1.1322 msec. or 1.132 if your using QuickLOAD.
12th reflection = 1.359 msec.
Each 0.002 of increased seating depth adds 0.001 msec. of exit time. Reducing seating depth by the same amount subtracts 0.001 of exit time.
For the same length 416R steel barrel with the same recessed crown with a reflection speed of 20,014 fps the exit times are:
10th reflection = 1.0809 msec. or 1.081 if your using QuickLOAD.
12th reflection = 1.297 msec.
If your new barrel is 27 inches with the same recessed crown, the 12th reflection time is 1.347 - that is 0.050 msec. more per inch of barrel length.
I have had problems trying to get most powders close to 1.132 msec. without exceeding Pmax, so I use the 12th reflection as my exit time goal.
For the Savage barrel, and the 143 Hornady ELD-X,
With H4350, exit time of 1.259 msec. is just under Pmax.
With H4831 SC, 1.247 msec. is just under Pmax.
That says the 12th reflection is safe BUT the 10th reflection is unattainable and seriously unsafe, almost 3.0 grains over the Pmax for each powder, respectively.
The pressure the charge produces doesn't change with the barrel steel composition, so the same pressure numbers from QuickLOAD are valid for both barrels.
But the exit time reduces for the 416R steel barrel and you have to increase the charge to get more velocity and smaller exit time, so the Pmax problem gets even worse with the 416R steel barrel.
Don't be too concerned with getting to the exact exit time, especially while you are learning your new barrel stock combination.
With my 12 FV with the Savage barrel, the difference of 0.002 in exit time is only 0.007 inches in group size on average which is well within my 'shooter induced variation' range, even trying my best to eliminate the variation effects.
I can give you some insight into this phenomenon Doug. In fall 2014, I had been home from a 2-month stay in the hospital from a disabling accident. I lost so much and as still in pain all the time. Became depressed as I thought my firearms shooting/building days were done! But then something happened. The Lord put a thought into me, and I decided to build another 1911. This was the first firearm I built with one arm/hand. I was on 1911 Forum, and made a build thread. I logged hundreds of photos and brought to life every aspect of the build in the thread. It went many, many pages long, and had a good deal of people, but it was the same ones posting over & over. You have to understand that not everyone has something to say. But look at the “view” count vs the “response” count. There are many more people who just peruse the thread, but have nothing to add.
Stock barrel and new barrel are same lenght and recessed crown. I too was real surprised that the chamber was so close between the two. So the only difference between the two is the metal composition.
Dave, not much or a concern either way for me, just an observation. I read much more threads then I post on.
I am doing this post first for my self for a record of what I am doing, second looking for advise and comments from those who have done all this before, and lastly to show anyone thinking of working on there own riffle who has not done so before to make the jump with some sort of confidence.
The view count lets you know people are interested in what you're posting whether or not they comment. I read many topics but not, necessarily, comment. I've read most of CFJ's range reports, especially on his12FVs and the 6.5CM in particular because I also have one.
I'm slowly gathering parts for a future build, and it will be my first ever, so topics like yours (and many others here) really pique my interest. Thanks for sharing everything you've experienced along the way.
Doug,
i sent you some load data for the new barrel loaded for 2.853 O.A.L. and 1.910 trim length.
For your old barrel, the loads of 2.821 had a jump of 0.048, you need to add 0.002 for the new barrel depth addition.
The new barrel at 2.853 would be right at 0.018 and right on the exit time for your new 416R barrel.
Oh, I didn’t think it was a concern for you. Rather, a discovery of this phenomenon we often make. I was simply sharing the story of how I came to the same realization of this as you have. We see it, but we don’t usually think about it. Then you will make a thread that seems to “suck in” a group of of people and you think, “interesting”, as you watch it unfold.
Im enjoying your progress on this project Doug. It reminds me of myself a number of times over the years. I could be wrong...but it seems to me you have the same “hunger” for firearms knowledge I have always had. Many here do. I feel truly blessed to have this, and it gives me a warm feeling to see others so involved.
Hey Doug.. Clean out your PM Inbox. You can’t RECEIVE messages.
The results are in, well at lest started. Shot 10 129 gn linterlock's to get sighted in and function tested. Then pressure rounds working up to 42.5 grains of h4350 case trim 1.914" OAL 2.855" for a 0.015" jump to lands, for an exit time of 1.296 ms. Predicted velocity of 2765.
actual was avg 2811
hi 2842
lo 2797
sd 12
es 45
if removing the hi it brings the avg to 2808 sd of 7 and es of 21
So the fist 10 rounds shot where the white tails for getting sighted in and function tested at 50 yards. Then I loaded pressure testers working up to 42.5 with no signs of pressure. All was good.
moving over to 100 yards I shot 10 rounds of the whitetail loads for a group of 1.497"
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then after 30 rounds down the new barrel I shot 3 groups of 5 of the loaded 42.5 rounds all sub 1" moa. That's a good start in my book.
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Nice results, Doug.
The most impressive thing to me was the 7 fps SD from the chronograph. That says a lot about the improvements in your loading technique.
I think those loads were really meant for 143 grain ELD-X bullets, so getting pretty good results from 129 interlocks is great.
The new barrel is a shooter and all your shots would have resulted in a dead deer.
The new barrel looks like it will do the job.
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