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Thread: 12fv build w/ pics

  1. #51
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    That's the way you do it. However, a 0.1 change in powder charge for H4831 SC will usually change velocity by about 6+ fps equivalent to a seating depth increase of 0.016. It is going to be hard to adjust by 0.010 jump by changing powder charges by 0.1 if the trim length is the same.

    A 0.1 grain increase in powder charge for H4350 will change velocity by about 6+ fps. and will require a seating depth increase of 0.017.

    If your still using H4831 SC powder, I suggest you try 2.837 (a jump of 0.032) with an additional 0.1 grain load and 2.855 (a jump of 0.014) with adding another 0.2 grain to your original load. The next increment would put you into the rifling and I wouldn't attempt that. You could always simply adjust the seating depth leaving the charge the same and sacrifice a few fps if you want to see if you get any added benefit of using a few thousandths shorter jump.

    If you are now using H4350, then you need to adjust to make 0.017 increases in O.A.L. for each 0.1 grain increase in charge.

  2. #52
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    great thanks, will adjust setting depth and load charge to see how it effect groups. Still using H4831sc for the time being.

  3. #53
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    [IMG][/IMG]

  4. #54
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    Nicely done.
    Your rifle build looks great and works great.
    Good work!

  5. #55
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    Got to the range again yesterday. Loaded up the same load of h4831sc in 1.90" trimmed cases.
    OAL of 2.821 for a jump to lands of 0.048". 8 rounds, group of 3 and 5
    OAL OF 2.837 for jump of 0.032" 15 rounds shot in groups of 5
    OAL2.855" for jump of 0.014" 10 rounds groups of 5.

    88 deg temps with wind from 8:00 at 4.7 miles. 100 yards

    All groups shot well. All at or less then 1" even with called pullled shots. My form seems to be the biggest issue still.
    Best group measured 0.0646 with the 0.014" jump.

    From looking at the groups I do not think there is a clear winner, what do you nuts think?

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]
    [IMG][/IMG]

  6. #56
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    You're showing a lot of improvement, DesertDug

    Although all the groups are showing the dreaded :"4 in - 1 out" effect that always haunts most of us, you have two groups that are under 0.9 and would be a lot better if the one shot was with the other 4.
    I used On Target to measure the groups and got some interesting data.
    Your second images right group is 0.833 and the third image left group is 0.766 even including the 1 out shot.

    --------- Left --Middle--Right -- Average
    Image 1 1.107------------------1.107
    Image 2 1.147 1.241 0.833 ---1.074
    Image 3 0.766 1.126-----------0.946
    --------------------------Overall 1.037
    Even with the 1-out shots causing some disruption of the group sizes, the averages would indicate that the results are improving slightly as you move toward a jump of 0.014 at 43.0 grs.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    If the 1 out shot was in with the others, your average groups sizes would be a lot smaller.
    With the 1 out group moved in with the others, the group sizes are indicative of what a rifle might do if you could keep the one stray shot from ruining your groups.
    You know from my June 4th session results that I reported on another thread how one lapse of concentration can cause an anomaly that messes up everything.
    --------- Left --Middle--Right -- Average
    Image 1 0.866 -----------------0.866
    Image 2 0.541 0.723 0.833 ---0.699
    Image 3 0.453 0.705 ----------0.579
    --------------------------Overall 0.687
    With the I out shots moved, the averages still show that the results favor 0.014 jump at 43.0 grains slightly and that indicates that the trends are in the same direction.

    I think you have some data you can work with both with load development and with technique improvement.

    Although you can't erase the errant shots, you can get an idea of what might be possible.
    Last edited by CFJunkie; 06-09-2019 at 10:38 AM. Reason: added images

  7. #57
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    new barrel shipped.

    Hope it shoots as good as the stock one.

    Need to get the barrel nut and lug ordered. I guess I need to go with e/arther brown since they have them in stock and have head gauges as well. They will be in black while the barrel is in SS. Should have had these ordered already from sharpshooters supply, oh well...

    Gonna be at the lease and will shoot up the H4830 loads I had ready to test at the range with the factory barrel but never made it there. Will not be bench results.

  8. #58
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    Shot the h4350 loads with the stock barrel. 100 yards prone out the back of my pick-em up truck.
    41gn h4350 with 143 gn edlx case grime 1.914" w/ cci primers. COAL of 2.851" to achive an exit time of 1.360 ms at the 12 th refraction and a 0.018" jump to lands.

    This is will be the last test loads done on this barrel as the new one should arrive tomorrow.
    Load looks promising.

    Shot two groups of 5, one group of 10, and one group of 15. These are the three group of factory cases that I did not mix together.


    [IMG]cute unique baby boy names 2015[/IMG]

  9. #59
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    One group was sup 1 moa
    [IMG][/IMG]

  10. #60
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    Pretty darn good shooting out of the bed of your pick-up. Those are all kill shots.

    Let us know how the new barrel does. I hope it does at least that well but I'm sure it will probably do better.

  11. #61
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    I was surprised with the results. Shooting prone out of the back of the pick up with my legs bent up into the air to fit, so the front rest was not on the tailgate and the bed liner not giving a smooth table and all. Also could only see the top half of the target due to tail over grown field I was shooting in. Target frame was a wire frame advertising type and was being effected by the wind gusts. This was why I decided to shoot the 10 and 15 round groups. Was having trouble keeping my set up consistent and was continually adjusting rests as well as check wield and the check rest became sweaty due to high humidity i was shooting in, this was east Texas after all.

  12. #62
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    Those conditions make your results even more impressive.
    That has to build your confidence for hunting with that set up.

  13. #63
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    Ok back to the build. Busted my second nut tonight
    Barrel came in. Weights in at 4.0 lbs. 3/4 lbs lighter then the savage barrel.
    Barrel spun with one wack with the dead hammer.
    Barrel nut seems not to want to un thread from the barrel. Probably just needs to be soaked.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    is this what others say is the gritty factory findings? My only other one was an old flat top long action that did not look as bad.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    The action face tool marks and proud area seem visible.

    My last build I wet sanded in a circler motion this surface since I do not have a leath to true this face. Please comment if you agree or have opinion on this approach.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Also noticed when I removed the scoope mount the pattern on the receiver that seems to suggest that it would benefit from bedding it to the action. Am I reading this correctly?

    [IMG] [/IMG]

    Machined lug and nut should be here some time this week and I can get'er all back together again and start load development.

  14. #64
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    I don’t currently have a lathe either Dug. So I did similar to what you are talking about. “Poor Mans” receiver face truing. What I did was use a piece of glass with 1000gr wet/dry sandpaper glued(spray contact glue). Then placed the receiver on the the paper Breech Face down, and move the receiver in a figure eight pattern. Used a spray bottle of soapy water to spray paper, and being extremely mindful to keep the receiver face completely flat, and not impart pressure more to one side. Sounds tricky, but it’s actually pretty simple. Last thing you can do is when you get the barrel, recoil lug & nut...use some rubbing compound. Put it all together with compound between the lug and receiver face. Tighten the nut for recoil lug to make contact with receiver face and rotate lug back & forth some. This will mate the two surfaces further. I was able to do this because the PTG recoil lug did not come with the locating pin. I installed that myself.

    As for the scope mount, sure you can bed it. Or you can try the same trick with rubbing compound. I’ve used the rubbing compound trick on many, many different things! NOT just for seating valves in engines!(but yes.. Did that to!)

  15. #65
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    I have a knife rubbing compound used on leather for stropping, will this work.
    I will try your glass technique, how easy is it to bugger up?

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertDug View Post
    I have a knife rubbing compound used on leather for stropping, will this work.
    I will try your glass technique, how easy is it to bugger up?
    Can only really do damage if you use more coarse sandpaper and/or dare not careful. Using 1000gr is slow. Think of it as a marathon, not a sprint! In fact, don’t think of it as a race at all! More like a lazy Sunday afternoon....and Monday is a HOLIDAY!! What you have for stropping is probably Rouge. That is a little on the light side. Any auto parts store will sell valve lapping compound. Comes in a little tube. And honestly, it is a bit extreme. The sandpaper is really the main thing. All you are trying to do is eliminate the high/low spots.

  17. #67
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    Copy that, thanks for the additional information., I can do holidays.

  18. #68
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    Yess’ir... I do keep in mind it’s easy for me now. I’m disabled so “Time” is one thing I have a surplus of. It has given me reflection to in the discipline of patience. I used to treat everything as a race...a sprint! I’ve learned that a focused & deliberate hand, given ample time, can do some pretty cool things indeed.


    Im looking forward to your finished work Doug. I think you are going are going to be quite pleased with the end result. It pleases me to see another DIY’er doing what I also love.

    Doug, I started little gun projects over two decades ago. Taught myself everything through reading & research. Today I’m an extremely competent gunsmith & machinist. But not as a profession. Never has been for money, but for the love of the exercise itself.

  19. #69
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    Good stuff here. Am retired USAF and post career now retired body/paint tech. Here's a tip on the wet sandpaper route, start at 600, progress to 800, then 1000 (JMHO 800 would be plenty good as final). Use the previous grit scratch mark as a "guide coat" when moving to next grade finer paper. Also, soak the paper for at least 15mins prior to use to allow the backing to become fully saturated ensuring smooth cut. Advice to use soap is spot on, I use a few drops of liquid dish soap (Dawn works great) in my bucket anytime I'm wet sanding.

    Rubbing compound meant for paint really won't do much for steel and I agree valve lapping compound might be a bit much. Brownell's has 600 & 800gr lapping compounds, Wheeler's has 600gr (220 & 320 too), and maybe even JB paste would work, I don't know, but maybe one of them would be better for lapping barrel/lug/receiver face.

  20. #70
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    Picked up some 1000 grit and action face polished to mirror in not much time. First the dirt cleaned up, then all the tooling markings became real clear. A little more soap water and light elbow grease, the mirror came out.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    my nut and lug from e arther brown came in and I am disappointed about the nut. It looks like it is just like the stock one. . Only 2.9 grains difference in weight. What's the best way to get in touch with sharpshooter to get one on express...

    Maybe he will see my post....

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Stock left, for build on right


    here is a shoot of the barrels side by side. I was pleased with the 3/4 pound reduction. I mocked it up and the balance point without scoppe mount seems to be right in front of the chamber.
    [IMG][/IMG]

  21. #71
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    Tell me if I am doing anything stupid.

    Looking over the nut, got me thinking, why would I not run the nut over the 1000 grit as well?

    I would be removing the finish.which triggered, hummm, I will be leaving the action face raw steel. Is this gonna be a problem?

    [IMG][/IMG]

    So what do you think?

  22. #72
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    does not matter

  23. #73
    Basic Member DesertDug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB68 View Post
    does not matter
    what does not matter? Leaving to Steel raw?

  24. #74
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    Use a bluing pen on the bare steel, I'd do the same on the action too. I sent an order form (what Fred recommended I do to order a single shot ramp) to SSS a couple weeks ago for one of his barrel lugs but haven't heard back. Am not in a big hurry, so will wait a little longer, if no response when I decide on barrel for my future build (10FP in 22 Creedmoor) I'll get the .250" PT&G parallel ground lug and re-bed the action.

  25. #75
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    Doug, great job on the breech face my fiend! I know the nut “looks” like the stock one, but that IS a machined barrel nut. The tolerances are going to be better than stock. You “can” smooth the face of the barrel nut as well, if you wish, but it’s not as crucial as the breech face. Go to your nearest gun and grab sone cold bluing, or a bluing pen as instructed. Coming along nicely brother!

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