Fire forming AI Brass???

[bootsmcguire]

As I have posted here earlier I am working with a 243AI lately and I am wondering about this "cream of wheat" method to form brass. I understand that you just prime the case, add the charge, fill to neck with cream of wheat, and plug neck with wax. My question is the "Charge" part of the equation. All the discussions and articles I have read list powders like Clays or unique with charges like 10grs.

My question What powders can I use and in what charges?

I keep H110, blue dot, green dot, and red dot as far as pistol powders go. I would like to use the Red Dot since I have about 8lbs just sitting around. Are any of these gonna work? I just don't wanna keep another powder around for such a limited usage.

[dcloco]

This method can be rather messy.

Why not just shoot the bullet/powder combo you think you would like to use when you have AI cases?

In all of the AI's that I own, the fireforming loads have provided excellent accuracy.

[Joe O]

Last Feb,when I received my 243 AI from the Smith,I worked up varmit loads in WW virgin brass,for caseforming,and accuracy.Then loaded 400 rounds for a PD shoot.The brass that I formed during work up of the 70gr varmit loads,I used to work up AI loads for 95gr Match Kings.PO always recommended using a stout load to fireform,and I used the max load listed for the parent case (243),and adjusted charge and seating depth for accuracy.I had to turn the necks on the virgin brass before loading,because I had a .270 neck in the Ackley.I briefly considered fireforming without bullets,but with the ammount of loads I intended,it wasn't practical.Besides you get to shoot the gun and develop loads.Have fun doing what you got it for.

[ThorBird]

I have used both methods for my 25-06AI. The cream of wheat method did not fully form the cases (rounded shoulders and other anomalies). I used the recommended charge, but I would use a stouter load next time. It is messy. I would probably go with something other than wax. I have read about people even using a wad of tissue paper, or anything that will keep the powder from falling out. That would be less messy. I found that forming the AI brass with the parent case loaded with a bullet provided brass ready to be fired as AI (perfectly formed) and provided excellent accuracy. You could use the fireform loads to sight your gun in, or to just get familiar with your gun, or even whack varmints. I now prefer this method to the cream of wheat method. The .243AI should be a great round. Good shooting.

[tiny68]

I use the COW (cream of wheat) method on 22-250AI and 6mm Rem AI. The rule I was told is to measure the case volume in grains of water and then use 10% of that volume in Unique. Adjust the powder up until you get good sharp shoulders. I am running closer to 15% in mine. I think 10.5 gr in my 6AI. Powder, then fill to the neck with COW, then put a wax plug in the end. I used to use toilet paper, but if a piece gets under the neck and is fired several times it is PIA to remove. It is messy on the barrel. Clean after 20-25 rounds, even if your going to current shooting. It will get the barrel hot. Don't fire off 25 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger.

BYI - I would just as soon use a stiff load with a bullet seated in the lands in my 6mm AI, but the gunsmith ran the reamer in a little deep and I have to form a false shoulder on the neck to get reliable firing, so the COW method is much easier with my 6AI. On my 22-250, I usually just buy cheap white box Winny ammo and fire it to get my brass.

The good think about the Ackley chambers is the brass will last forever. A little should bump and your ready. I have neck sized only the 22-250 AI for 3-4 firings without having to do a shoulder bump.

Luck, Tim

[bootsmcguire]

Thanks for all the input guys. I guess i'll stick with the loaded ammo method, as my current load for the AI is the max load for the parent case. I just was thinking the COW method might be easier but it looks like its not really. Thanks Again.

[gotcha]

Have a 6mm AI & .257AI. Used the COW method on the 6mm and will never try again for the reasons posted above then some. On the .257AI I fire formed with the bullet I intended to use (87 grn. Berger) just below max. load. Bullet seated to the lands (touching) Saw no difference in accuracy between Virgin brass and fireformed. Used weight sorted Remington brass. This recommendation came from Dave Kiff @ PTG who also has a .257AI and made the reamer. Using a Krieger 10 twst. on modified XP-100 action. N' shootin' bug holes. Good luck w/ your project. You're gonna Love the .243AI ;D Try the 88grn. Berger. @600 yds. it will pull a fat sod poodle plum outa the hole! It stabilizes well in my 10 twst 6AI which suprised me. Dale

[drybean]

load an shoot
cream of wheat you eat

[BrentWin]

Play with your bullet seating depth while shooting fire forming loads. That way you have that part of the equation done when you start load testing with full AI loads.

[phantom]

I have a 22-6mm AI, and I tried the COW, didn't work well . . So I started out using 15 gr. of Bullseye and filled the rest of the case with Very fine Walnut media, put a square of heavy paper towel on top to keep the contents from escaping, didn't quite fill out the case, so I increased it to 17 gr. . . and it punches the case out to nearly perfect. Then I finish the fire form with the full up loads, seems to shoot just fine . . if I can keep the bullets together, that seems to be the only thing that is hampering the ability of this rifle to shoot !! The 1:8 twist is just about tooo much for this, it should have been a 1:9, that would have given me great velocity and the ability to keep the bullets together to the target. I figure that the bullet is going some where around the 400k rpm mark . . and even the best of the Hornadys won't stay together at that rpm . .

And - yes I have tried just about all of them now . . . The only ones I can get to go the distance with any regularity is the Barnes Triple Shock bullets . . but at 85 cents a bullet - that makes for expensive target practice. . . . I had better want to kill something with that cost in ammo . .

But the Fire Form procedure works very Well !! What I didn't see happening is me shooting out a barrel Fire Forming Brass with full up loads, that would have been about 100+ rounds with nothing to show for it but fire formed brass. JMHO !!!

[bootsmcguire]

Well, i went with the load and shoot method. Fired perfect, formed perfect, and accuarcy was great. I'll post a target later if I think about it. Did a 1" 10-shot group, first three were covered up with the base of my 243AI brass. Am seeing great potential in this barrel and round. i like the fact that this load should be darn close to 4k-FPS and has less recoil then my 308 in the same weight of gun. Thanks guys.

I am having a fireforming prob with my K-Hornet. I'll start a new thread for that one.

[phantom]

Boots . . . Just put a Standard Hornet Round in the chamber and SHOOT it . . fire forms perfectly . . Been there - done that !! It is a Rimed Case and head spaces off the Rim. Be careful with the Hornet Brass, it is really thin and will cave in easily . . If the bullet isn't exactly straight, it will cave in the necks of the brass also. I found H110 and IMR 4227 to be the best of the bunch for the 35 gr. Sierra bullet in that rifle. Both powders shoot about the same in mine. Neat little caliber for critters out to 100 yards . . Light and quiet.

[bootsmcguire]

Phantom thank you for the reply. Below I have posted a link to my thread about the Hornet, and I will respond there. I am doing that out of respect to the rules of the site not to get topics cross, and it sounds like there has been some trouble with that going on.


http://savageshooters.com/SavageForu...c,36587.0.html

[dcloco]

Phantom - check your PM on the 22/6mm AI.......