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Thread: Salt Bath Annealing, Pro's and Con's.

  1. #26
    Basic Member darkker's Avatar
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    That's excellent, thank you for the link.
    I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.

  2. #27
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    Just to clarify a bit, the 3rd and 4th photos are of the baffle/case holder. The second of the two show the neck holder that suspends the brass to a fixed depth in the salt bath, which is adjusted to submerge only the portion you want. I prefer the salt to cover the neck and about half the shoulder.

    The 1000 degree temp really does nothing to the composition of the brass in the short time it's heated. Annealing is dependent upon time at temperature, the hotter the temp, the faster the annealing process is completed. I found this process is actually faster then using a propane torch which burns at 3600*F (1980* C)
    and unlikely to overheat the brass because it heats evenly inside and out.

    If you like, you can google "salt bath annealing cartridge brass" to find some good video's, or go directly to the BallisticRecreations website link provided.

    Good luck and good shooting.
    Banning a gun will not solve what is a mental health crisis inflamed by incendiary rhetoric on social and television media. The first amendment in this case is less precious and more likely the causal factor than the second amendment.

  3. #28
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    DARKKER:

    "As originally spec'd, C260 was a certain mix, with a tensile strength spec'd at 70-75,000psi. ..... If someone else uses a different alloy, or tensile rating, it may not translate as well as hoped."



    I analyzed some cases for my brother a few months ago, I thought Lapua was in here, it's not, but for what the info is worth here it is, I hope it contributes to the thread. This data is listed as MFG and Caliber, I do not know if the recipe translates across all calibers for a given MFG. This data is for a specific case, for a specific caliber, from a specific MFG.

    Industry Brass 260 aka “Cartridge Brass”
    Comments: Cartridge Brass
    Copper, Cu 68.5 - 71.5 %
    Zinc, Zn 28.5 - 31.5 %
    Iron, Fe <= 0.050 %
    Lead, Pb <= 0.070 %
    Other, total <= 0.15 %

    Federal 6.5 Creedmor
    Comments: Brass 260
    Copper 70.03%
    Zinc 29.81%
    Manganese .01%
    Iron .05%
    Tin .01%

    Remington 280 Remington
    Comments: Brass 260
    Copper 71.55%
    Zinc 28.25%
    Aluminum .12%
    Phosphorous .01%
    Iron .04%
    Tin .03%

    Winchester .243 Win
    Comments: Brass 260
    Copper 69.99%
    Zinc 29.52%
    Aluminum .29%
    Iron .06%
    Nickle .03%
    Tin .11%


    Starline 7MM-08
    Comments: 443
    Copper 73.67%
    Zinc 26.23%
    Tin .04%
    Iron .04%
    Manganese .01%
    Phosphorous .01%

  4. #29
    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
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    I nuked some at work on time. I have the data sheet I documented the stuff on somewhere around here. If you are working with a recently calibrated gun with a new sensor(from what I am told) they are crazy accurate. I have had some cutting fluids cause them too lie before though so everything has to be clean. Thanks for posting that. Check the blue box and the gold box Lapua brass that everyone claims is the same.
    The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.

  5. #30
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    To read results of some definitive testing, see this test report under the home tab. http://www.savageshooters.com/conten...Case-Annealing

    Bottom line: Anneal every time for consistent neck tension, and use a bushing (or mandrel) die. Conventional dies using an expander ball will overwork even the freshly annealed brass. Neck tension is a function of brass harness and interference fit and will affect shot to shot consistency accordingly.

    Annealing is complete at 1000*F for a few seconds, and those temps will not change zinc contents of brass.

    The tests were conducted with an induction type annealer, where annealing temps are tightly controlled. There was no mention of salt emersion type annealing.

    YMMV.
    Banning a gun will not solve what is a mental health crisis inflamed by incendiary rhetoric on social and television media. The first amendment in this case is less precious and more likely the causal factor than the second amendment.

  6. #31
    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
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    I wasn't concerned about ruining brass, but I understood that was Darkkers thinking. If you were loosing Zink, your salt would have a dark layer on the bottom of the hardened plug.

    This was a great post Texas. Thanks for taking the time for the review. It helped push me over the edge on getting one.
    The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.

  7. #32
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    Great info, where do you get the two disks ? and is there a bottom disk for small cases like 223's and a large one for 308 size cases ??

  8. #33
    Basic Member Robinhood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter0302 View Post
    Great info, where do you get the two disks ? and is there a bottom disk for small cases like 223's and a large one for 308 size cases ??

    http://ballisticrecreations.ca/salt_...aling-kit-rev/
    The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.

  9. #34
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    Just wanted to post that some kits have been available. I was able to order one yesterday but see they're out of stock this morning. For any looking to get one of Gary's kits, keep checking back as he's working on increased supply.

  10. #35
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    Update: You can probably see in the photos that the aluminum parts of the melter pot really don't do well around salt, and when I went to use it several days ago, it was just a mess of corrosion. So I ordered a new pot on Amazon and painted it with high temp paint before putting it to use.

    With everything ready I plugged it in and a couple minutes later heard a pop and saw sparks. The heating element had failed, and took the thermostat with it. I ordered another Lee Melter pot and had it in my hands the next day and after painting it, plugged it in and.....same result.

    So I called Lee and found out that they had a bad batch of heater elements and offered free replacement.

    With new parts in hand several days later, I put it back in service and it worked fine.

    Lee customer service was tops, with parts to fix one pot and another new pot on the way, can't beat that!

    So if you're just getting into this form of annealing and using the Lee Melter Pot for the first time, plug it in and just watch it for 10 to 20 minutes without touching it. Read that again, without touching it. And if the heater fails, simply call Lee and they'll take good care of you.

  11. #36
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    Thanks for that head's up T10, the last part I needed to build a PID controller arrived Monday so I can finally start assembly. My Lee pot delivered in May is still sitting in the box unopened, hope I don't have same problem, but now know what I need to do if the heater fails.

  12. #37
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    I would be interested in reading your experience with PID controller when you get it working, Phil.

    And since you're going to disassemble the unit it wire for the PID, I highly recommend the high temp paint on all aluminum parts. Also a high temp silicon seal on the lower pot cap to keep salt from seeping under the cap.

    Please write back with your PID building experience and overall satisfaction with it.

    One other caution when using the Ballistics Recreations thermocouple is be sure you don't twist the plug end. The wires are exposed inside the plug and when twisted they'll short and you'll get erroneous temp readings that will throw your PID into conniptions.

  13. #38
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    Thanks for the head's up and will do.

    The way I'm going eliminates the need to disassemble the pot for the PID controller, I'm also not using the BC thermocouple. Got the idea from this l o n g video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgixJeF0vEU

    Longest wait was for the project box, apparently the company had to run a new batch, even the 800C thermocouple from China arrived sooner. Have some ideas for modifications over the one in the video, so will detail them when I do the build.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robinhood View Post
    I wasn't concerned about ruining brass, but I understood that was Darkkers thinking. If you were loosing Zink, your salt would have a dark layer on the bottom of the hardened plug.

    This was a great post Texas. Thanks for taking the time for the review. It helped push me over the edge on getting one.
    You're welcome, RH. Having lots of fun and decided to share my experiences.

    I get the black layer on the bottom of the hardened salt plug, but I'm pretty sure it's not zinc, but blueing being stripped off each time I tap it out after cooling. I noticed that the steel pot was very nicely blued just like a new barrel after the first use. Tapping out the cooled salt plug reveals bare steel spots in the bottom of the pot and a blackened bottom before annealing any brass.
    Banning a gun will not solve what is a mental health crisis inflamed by incendiary rhetoric on social and television media. The first amendment in this case is less precious and more likely the causal factor than the second amendment.

  15. #40
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    Another update: I am finding that the amount of time in the 1000 degree salt bath does make a difference on the neck tension when seating a bullet. My process has always been to size the brass then anneal to get the most consistent neck tension and I'm finding that emersion time does make a difference in seating effort. Only a few seconds seem to matter, so I'm trying to keep careful track of time at temp. Longer seems to be better and the difference shows up on the target.

    As always, YMMV.
    Banning a gun will not solve what is a mental health crisis inflamed by incendiary rhetoric on social and television media. The first amendment in this case is less precious and more likely the causal factor than the second amendment.

  16. #41
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    Thanks for the update. Am in process of moving into new reloading area, new bench, etc. so am behind on getting the PID box built. Probably be another few weeks before I can start.

  17. #42
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    I wired up a Lee Melter this morning with a PID and SSR, and have been very impressed with how closely this keeps the temp (within 3 degrees Celsius of the set point). I think I'm about $65 into it total, and wish I had done this sooner.

    No range results yet of course, but resizing is certainly easier and the force required feels much more consistent. One of my super accurate 6BR loads at 100 did not have a great SD/ES, and really opens up more than I like at 600. I'm hoping that this is the fix I needed.
    FTR in 223, BA LE Tactical in 308, 110 Flatback in CBI 6mmBR Norma, Others

  18. #43
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    SIlicone seal mentioned on Salt BAth Annealing

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas10 View Post
    I would be interested in reading your experience with PID controller when you get it working, Phil.

    And since you're going to disassemble the unit it wire for the PID, I highly recommend the high temp paint on all aluminum parts. Also a high temp silicon seal on the lower pot cap to keep salt from seeping under the cap.

    Please write back with your PID building experience and overall satisfaction with it.

    One other caution when using the Ballistics Recreations thermocouple is be sure you don't twist the plug end. The wires are exposed inside the plug and when twisted they'll short and you'll get erroneous temp readings that will throw your PID into conniptions.
    I just saw this article. I have been salt bath annealing since 2019 and love the results. My Lee Lead Melter just blew a heating element and in the process of cleaning it up to get ready for a new element I ran across your article and comments. I've been trying to find a seal/sealant and I was wondering if you could point one out to me. I'm not having luck as the temp of the salt bath is about 525-550C. I do use a PID controller set up I built. I'm also toying with the idea of removing the resistor on the Lee and just allowing the PID to have all control. Any Wisdom and comments would be greatly appreciated!

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