Reply With QuoteI would like to know this also
I show up to my local long range matches and I'm always the only guy shooting a savage action. I have yet to see any top shooters in PRS using a savage action. I know Savage gained some traction years ago in f class. Not sure about anywhere else. The general consensus seems to be that Savage is junk. There remains a lot of snickering when folks say "I'm looking at getting into long range and was considering a savage." I always dismissed this sort of elitism with a challenge to meet at the range and the response was usually silence.
Today I looked at buying the cabelas 10t-sr in 6.5 creedmoor. It's left handed and would fit my chassis for my other bottom bolt release rifle. Perfect!
Anyway, the reviews on cables website revealed that the Savage Arms I grew up with may not be the same Savage. Rough barrels, poor customer service, stiff bolts/actions, accu trigger malfunctions, ejection malfunctions, feeding issues, chamber problems and the list goes on.
Is Savage's reputation of low quality among some shooters deserved? Has the vista outsoors acquisition been a hostile takeover? Or is all this restricted to the Cabelas model?
Bill
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I would like to know this also
I have a savage 10t-sr and it has been an excellent shooter. With handloads it’s under 1/2 moa consistently. I have had zero issue with this gun whatsoever. It started as a 223 and now it’s a 6.5 creedmoor. The creedmoor barrel is actually a 12fv takeoff and it almost hilarious how accurate the thing is with handloads. It went 5 for 5 on a 6” gong at 806 yards the other day with Berger 140 hybrids at a hair over 2700 FPS.
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Sorry for the long post but you asked a lot of questions.
I have a 10T-SR in 6.5mm Creedmoor and it shoots accurately with an overall average under 0.385 inches for all 5 round groups measured at 100 yards.
It is configured especially for Cabela's so it has some features not found in the Savage models.
The 10T-SR has a fairly long bolt handle that seems to get in the way a bit for me even though it may provide the torque needed to control a somewhat sticky bolt.
My two lower cost Savage rifles (a model 11 VT .22-250 and the 10T-SR) have bolts that aren't as smooth as the more expensive ones, but that could be just coincidence.
If I were you looking for a really long range Savage, I would recommend a 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor with the Precision Target Accu-Triger and a HS Precision aluminum pillar bedded stock. Check the Savage web site to see if it is available in a left hand version.
Mine right hand version came from the factory with a 10 oz. Precision Target Accu-trigger and the bolt was smooth as silk.
It is my most accurate rifle and has averaged just over 0.36 inches at 100 yards for all types of bullets and powders for the 475 5-inch groups that I have shot through it.
I bought mine new for under $1,100 and am looking to buy one in a different caliber because it is such a great rifle.
Barrels and Inherent Accuracy
All my Savage bolt action rifles were accurate out of the box.
Savage and CZ are the only two companies that I can say that about and I have bought new rifles from a lot of different companies.
If the Savage barrels are rough, and I have no data to confirm or deny that claim, it doesn't seem to mess up the accuracy in any of my rifles.
Of all my rifles, Savage holds 4 of the top five slots for accuracy with the 4th slot held by a more expensive Les Baer Super Varmint .223.
The top 5 are followed by a CZ and then a Remington 700 (but the Remington had to get a new trigger and stock to get 7th place.)
Accu-Trigger Malfunctions
I have read reports of Accu-trigger malfunctions as well. Almost all of them were lock-ups, if I remember correctly.
Turns out that the Accu-trigger is designed to lock up when the tab is pushed to the side instead of straight back.
That is how Savage dealt with avoiding inadvertent release under shock.
If you have sloppy trigger technique and push the safety tab on a lightly set trigger to the side instead of straight back, the trigger will lock up.
With 5 Savage rifles, I have experienced a few Accu-trigger lock ups over about 9 years.
They all occurred on 2 of the 5 rifles with triggers that were set at 2 lbs. (close to minimum trigger pull weight - 1.6 lbs. for a standard Accu-trigger).
They occurred after many months (years) of shooting with no problems.
I figured out that the adjustment screw can loosen with use unless you put a dab of Loc-Tite or nail polish on it after you set it to your desired pull weight.
When it loosens and gets close to the minimum pull weight, the safety tab gets sensitive enough to lock when even light pressure is applied to the safety tab toward the side.
If the trigger setting screw gets really loose, the trigger might lock up even if you slam the bolt down sharply as you close it.
One of my 5 rifles did that but the trigger pull measured under 1.6 lbs. when measured in checking out the problem.
The problem went away when I reset the trigger pull at the desired 2 lbs. and put a dab of Loc-Tite on the adjusting screw.
Customer Service
I have read some of the negative comments about Savage Customer Service as well but you can't prove it by me.
With 5 Savage rifles all bought new, I have had two opportunities to use Savage Customer Service and both times I got very cordial and effective service.
I registered all five new rifles with Savage using their web site. so they had a record of my purchase, which may have helped.
1) I had a new barrel replaced on an old 10 FP .308 and Savage consulted with me willingly when I asked for a fluted target barrel to replace an original factory barrel with more than 6,500 rounds through it.
They told me they would have to see the rifle to check their options and find an appropriate target barrel and then they would have to flute it.
I sent them the rifle and they called back in less than a week and told me they had a target barrel that would fit and could be fluted so I told them to do it.
They sent the rifle back looking like new except for the existing wear marks on the well-used bolt.
Total bill was $427 which was far less than the over $800 and up to 1 year quoted by local gun smiths.
The rifle was rebarreled and returned from Savage within 35 days, including shipping time.
The chamber in the new barrel was right at SAAMI recommended length and the new barrel out shot the factory original by over 0.2 inches on average.
That old 10 FP is now my best shooting .308.
2) I also had a tight chamber adjusted on the 12 LRP early in its life because I was seeing high pressure signs even with loads far lighter than mid load table charges.
I asked Hornady, who developed the cartridge if that was normal and they told me that some target rifles use very tight chambers and that causes higher pressures.
With that information, I reported the problem to Savage and provided load data and photos of several different loads including the minimum loads when I reported the problem via the Savage web site.When they returned the rifle, they even noted how many thousandths they bored the chamber to eliminate the problem.
Savage reacted very quickly and sent return instructions.
The rifle shoots as accurately as ever and I never have seen pressure signs since, even if I get close to Pmax.
Both service actions were completed within 30 days, including shipping time.
I hope you find the rifle you're looking for and have success in your competitions.
My brand new 110 Tactical was shooting sub MOA using loads developed for another rifle. Stock is just fine from the trigger forward... but you have to realize it's only a $780 rifle at full retail. And I like to tinker so the butt stock has seen serious change so it fits me.
My buddies 110BA in 300 Win Mag is dead nuts accurate. And a 110BA in 338 Lapua Mag that I had for awhile was amazingly accurate with hand loads.
The ability to change out barrels myself is what got me interested in Savage but the accuracy I have seen from factory barrels is what will keep me a convert.
My 110 was half the price of a Remington clone action by itself, yet downrange you can't tell the difference.
Personally I don't care what other people are using. And there are a lot of brands absent from long range competition.... I find the elitism and snobbishness of the long range community a little off putting.
My Axis is what got me to love the Savage. Shot near MOA out of the box and over 500rnds later it is closer to .5MOA. I suspect it took that long to smooth out the barrel. Mine is the heavy barrel model so the less than MOA is for a ten round group.
I have a 12BVSS that is following that same pattern. It is just at MOA out of the box and is getting better.
FWIW, Savage has an accuracy spec on their rifles.
Sporter barrel models (Hunter, Weather-Warrior, Classic, Stevens Series): 1 1/2" or better at 100 yds
Varmint barrel models (Varmint, Law Enforcement Series): 1" or better at 100 yds
Savage Axis (Formerly the Edge): 2" or better - 3 shot group
I bought a 10T-SR 223 Remington for my first centerfire rifle on the recommendation of the guy at Cabela's. I was leaning hard toward the Remington 700 SPS Varmint and he talked me out of it and into the Savage. After 600 rounds or so, it's been a great ownership experience. It routinely shoots 1/2 MOA or better with my handloads when I do my part. It's been completely reliable and the bolt has been smooth from Day one. I think it's a good value for what you get.
The LH 10T-SR in 6.5 Creedmoor is a good find considering you can't find a lot of moderately priced factory LH rifles with the feature set of this model.
Regardless of brand, I think that budget to moderately priced firearms can be hit or miss. There are going to be inconsistencies in fit/finish/quality. For every ten good rifles that leave the factory, there may be a few that don't measure up and end up in the hands of some unlucky owner. Those stories are the ones that get a lot of mileage. It pays to really check it over good before you plunk down your money. I recently picked up a new 12 FV and went through several samples from the stock room which had very rough actions before getting one that felt good.
I do appreciate everyone's thoughtful replies.
I'm going to take my chance on the rifle someday as it fits my existing chassis for my older model 10. Hopefully, it shoots well.
Bill
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Here's my humble take on the overall quality subject based on my 17+ years of running this site and all the various Savage rifles I have purchased or received for review in that time.
In some areas Savage has improved a lot, while in others I think the quality has slipped off a little.
The actions coming out of the factory today are better than they have been in decades due to newer machinery and production processes being used. Savage has invested a small fortune in new manufacturing equipment in the last 10-12 years and the product is better for it.
One the other hand, it seems the quality of their barrels has fallen off a little in recent years. The accuracy is still there, and the bores of Savage barrels have never been described as being buttery smooth, but barrels that are visually rougher and have obvious [to the naked eye] tooling marks in them seem to be more prevalent.
I suspect the visual bore quality issue has more to do with the volume of barrels they're making now and the speed at which they're running things to put out the volume they are. A barrel is nothing more than a machined piece of round bar stock, so the only thing affecting whether it will be a good or bad barrel is the quality of the machining, and the quality of the machining will always be linked directly to the amount of time taken to do the machining. Faster feed rates, higher RPM's, etc. are going to affect the quality of the finished product.
As far as their synthetic stocks go, I think we can all agree that Savage has made significant strides in that department in recent years - first with the AccuStock, now with the AccuFit stock. Granted some models still come with the basic lack-luster tupperware stocks, but if you buy one with that stock it was your choice not to pay to get the better stock so you don't have anyone to blame but yourself.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Another thought to add to this. I was really disappointed when savage (probably more vista outdoors) delved into an incredibly saturated AR market. My understanding of Savages past was that it nearly went under mostly because it's product line was entirely too diverse and their overhead was unmanageable. Ron Coburn takes over and Savage becomes a company that focused on doing one thing well - the 110 bolt action. Making ARs seems like an unnecessary distraction (and probably not all that profitable).
Bill
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I think you'd be surprised just how many AR's they're selling. As for it being a distraction, the only parts I'm aware of that they're making in-house for the AR's is the barrels and maybe the billet receivers on the side-charging models. All the small parts, furniture and forged receivers are outsourced by my understanding.Originally Posted by Bill C
The reason Savage almost went belly up wasn't as much about how diverse their product line was, but rather because the corporation that owned it at the time refused to invest any money into it. You can't make quality products when your working with tired old machinery and worn out tooling and the corporate overlords just wanted to bleed Savage dry for every penny they possibly could with no care or concern for the companies reputation or product quality.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Have owned a 10T in both 308 and 6.5 CM. The 308 was a tac driver. Couldn’t get the CM to shoot like the 308. Sold that to fund a savage 338 FCP. Sold the 10T because I wanted a threaded barrel so got a savage 308 FCP-SR. Regret selling the 10T. Did end up selling the 338 to fund the RPR 338. My biggest complaint on savage rifles is bolt binding when trying to cycle fast. Next, the 10T 308 safety kept engaging on light trigger settings. Another issue is the magazines. All my savage rifles had issues with keeping the large magazines locked in place. Most of the savages I have owned shot fairly accurate besides the 6.5 CM. Savage rifles are ok for the money. But if you have the bucks, would tell you to look at tikka, RPR, or others.
Savage 10 FCP-SR 308, 300BO PCS
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