I have a .223 pillar bedded and free floated in a Boyd's stock that has barrel venting, at the moment the rifle is mostly used for paper, plinking, and the occasional groundhog, however I want to keep accuracy at ~1 MOA or less. Someday I may rebarrel it with a varmint barrel however for now, what's a good practice as far as waiting between shots or groups? I have noticed that my 2nd shot often isn't as accurate as my first but I always just assumed it was me or something in my technique but now I'm beginning to question it. The barrel is 22" with a 1:8 twist and I shoot 50, 55, and 62gr ammo depending on the occasion.
Rusty Shackelford
My .223 Axis with sporter barrel starts to string them after ~5 shots in a row...but those first 4-5 are quite accurate. I can't say I wait any certain amount of time until unloading another set, just go shoot another gun for 10 minutes and come back to it. Is your 2nd shot after a true "cold shot" where the barrel is at ambient?
You could even get those barrel temp strips and play around with what temp it needs to reach for the groups to tighten back up.
Yea my 2nd shot is always after a cold shot, makes sighting in a new scope kind of a pita.
Rusty Shackelford
Most guns will usually shoot the second shot to a different spot than the first. I would say you have done about most everything you can do with your current setup short of adding a bigger lug or new barrel.
Are you cleaning the barrel before each range session? If so try not doing so. I know most of my guns need a fouling shot after a good cleaning, which I do once a year. Living in the desert has it's benefits. All of my rifles are hunting rifles but my old 700 Remington got a new Manners stock this year which was professionally installed. I have been shooting it with a new to me Swarovski scope with a custom turret. A month ago I had it shooting cloverleafs at 100 and two shots touching at 200. I sighted it in last weekend, after still not cleaning it, at 300. Went back out yesterday morning and shot a 2", 3 shot group just to see how consistent it is with the 25yo factory sporter barrel in 7Mag.
Not every time but I probably clean more often than i should just by nature and also because of where I live however I may try cleaning less often, maybe just try a powder solvent with no copper remover 2/3 of the time too. I have shot mostly .22 lr over the years an can drive nails with my MKII however with centerfire I'm still learning recoil management and can't do much better than 1 moa at 200-300 yards yet so I don't need supreme accuracy at the moment nor can I afford all it entails. But I'm dedicated to becoming better and obsessive on top of that so it's only a matter of time before I'm looking for better however at that point I will probably be looking for a whole new rifle and caliber, either 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 Win. This .223 is more of a stepping stone and plinking gun that is an affordable way to learn by shooting lots of ammo at an affordable price. The most hunting it will ever see will be the occasional groundhog that decides to call my property home near my garden... and possibly the occasional mid size whitetail(the older larger ones don't taste as good to me) until I can afford something bigger and better.
Rusty Shackelford
First, I would agree that shooting from a clean barrel will give a different POI than a fouled barrel. Especially if you are cleaning out all the copper. My Axis barrel has needed a lot of smoothing to get consistently good groups. I also do not clean the copper out of it anymore until the accuracy goes to pot. Then I clean out the copper. At the range I run a dry patch to soak up any oil left in the bore and then about 10 or 20 rounds before it settles down again. Then I only clean out the powder fouling between shooting sessions (50-100rnds per session). I still run a dry patch and take a fouling shot each time I go to the range.
If you are going to shoot from a clean barrel (like hunting) then you need to duplicate the conditions, ie, a clean barrel, for each shot. Yes, it is not good for the barrel to clean it that often.
The sporter barrels may also change POI with changes in temperature. You should also check to make sure your barrel is not touching the stock after it has heated up from shooting.
You are smart to be starting with the .223 It is a *****cat to shoot. I'd recommend that your second rifle be the 6.5CM. The recoil difference between the .223 and .308 is pretty big (my BVSS is in .308). If you are shooting MOA size groups you are doing well. Many people cannot manage to do that on a consistent basis. Consistent 0.5MOA is the realm of competition shooters.
Last, if you plan on shooting a lot and don't reload, consider investing in a reloading setup. A single stage or something like a Lee turret press are really inexpensive compared to the cost of good quality ammo.
PS noticed your build pics on the other thread. Nice rifle.
I agree, stop cleaning it. I used to worry about cleaning. Being older and lazy has helped me stop. I see no need in it really. Like others say, I do believe a Savage factory barrel shoots better dirty.
I run an oil patch down mine if I put them in a safe and don't plan on shooting it for a while. I will then run some dry patches down the barrel until it removes the oil before I shoot it again.
I used to do the barrel break-in routine too. I don't do that either, other than a pre-shoot cleaning. I think it is a big waste of time.
Alright I'll see how not cleaning as often works, and I do intend to get into reloading eventually, just saving up a pile of brass first, already been looking around quite a bit at what's out there.
Rusty Shackelford
To really see if you or the gun are accurate go buy some Federal Gold Medal Match ammo. Yes, it is very expensive, but, it is also very accurate. Shoot a fouling shot with the cheap stuff and then try 3 round groups with plenty of time in between to let the barrel cool.
My experience with cheap .223 ammo is 2" groups or even worse are the norm.
I have also found a lot of variation in brass. Especially the cheaper ammo. If you look at the headstamp you may see a lot of 'dimples'. This is factory recycled brass. The dimples are where they have stamped out the original headstamp info. So, you may have federal brass that started out as lake city brass. Most of these mixes are OK for less than max reloads. Just be aware of what you are looking at.
Ah I was wondering what those dimples on some of my federal brass were from, i have an assortment of federal and remington brass and I keep them separate. I plan to get some gold match ammo to sight in my scope since I had everything apart for bedding.
Rusty Shackelford
When you start reloading, buy Lapua. Arguably the best brass out there. Catch it on sale with a discount code, and it really doesn't cost that much. For plinking like an AR-15, bulk whatever brass may be fine. But, for precision, you might as well have good brass.
One thing on the Sporter barrels (on a tip from J. Baker) I have started playing with a free-floated barrel EXCEPT for one point at the fore-end. Mine (Bottom Release M11 w/sporter weight barrel) was good for three shots and then invariably went to 1-1/2" for five. No question the shorter weight barrel gets HOT. I shoot five shot strings and wait 15 minutes. Thee shot is fine for a deer rifle . . . but I have varmints as well. And NO ONE doesn't like a rifle they can shoot for hours at targets for fun and practice (and load development).
I free-floated from the lug forward, added pillars, bedded and then added a bit of tractor inner tube held down with fletching/two-sided tape with just a few pounds pressure. I can move it back and forth to "tweak" in the harmonics.
I wanted to get through hunting season so I haven't had a chance to play with this. Will be a feature post if it works!
Here's my bedded area and posts.
For giggles I bedded the bottom "plastic" (E.Arthur Brown) though I have a Gun Shop metal trigger
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik
looks good and let me know how that works out, i'm curious to hear about your results. I also free floated from the lug forward on mine and I also bedded the trigger guard just because it kept things clean and flush.
Rusty Shackelford
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