savage stealth and OAL

[zloe]

Hello all, I've got a 6.5 savage stealth that is a superb gun. i've put several hundred rounds of ammo through it.
My load work up so far has ended up with the following
h4350 41.2g
ELDM hornady 140 gr bullets
starline small primer brass
fiocchi small magnum primer
velocity 2787fps 15 shots measured with magnetospeed and SD of 4(!!!!!)
getting 0.5 - 0.75 5 round groups with it

My biggest question is the OAL length. I've been making the cartridge length as long as the MDT magazine will allow. which is right around 2.81 with the ELDMs. I know this is quite a bit off the lands and I've been wondering if accuracy could be improved with another magazine that allows room to get closer to the lands. thoughts? When I seat a bullet in a fired case I get 2.943 for length. .0133 Seems like a HUGE jump!
I know I'm fighting 2 things here. One a factory barrel which typically has a longer throat, and a magazine that doesn't allow bullets to seat out very far. Any suggestions on how to get that closer, even the AICS mags won't allow a 2thousandths jump if that 2.943 measurement is correct.

[VS762]

Before you stress over it I would hand load 5-10 with longer OAL and see how they group. Might put your mind at ease to know if there is no measurable difference. If there is than it would justify a new barrel in my opinion. If you are getting .5 MOA I do not think you are gonna get much better though. Just my two cents.

[kingdombuilder]

I agree with vs762 . I dont know if the verdict is in on new eld bullets . jump or jamb seating depth. usually the magic area is 20 thou off lands. I would try different seating depths . hand feed them to see if its worth the trouble. There is a manufacturer that makes a deeper mag box think its wyatts but not sure if thats what will fit in your gun. let me know if it changes groups I will be shooting ashburry soon and its the same action blue printed and ect... I would be curious to see what you get . I plan on loading same bullet . thanks for the load info.

[want2ride]

.133 is a pretty huge jump in my book, but if the gun shoots 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups.... I would probably leave it. What kind of groups are you getting at longer ranges? If it is still in the 1/2 to 3/4 MOA range at 300 or 400 yards I wouldn't change a thing.

[VS762]

Honest 1/2 MOA is about the best you are ever going to get. 100% agree!

[zloe]

.133 is a pretty huge jump in my book, but if the gun shoots 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups.... I would probably leave it. What kind of groups are you getting at longer ranges? If it is still in the 1/2 to 3/4 MOA range at 300 or 400 yards I wouldn't change a thing.

I agree. 0.5 MOA is great. Especially for the small amount of money I've put into the gun. It just bothers me that I COULD see better accuracy getting closer to the lands. And usually I'm the "good nuff" type of dude.

Thanks for the good idea to hand load some longer ones. I'll post some results when I get around to it.
Shoots really well out to 1400 yrds (furthest I've taken a poke at) but I've never measured any MOA past 100. Another good idea.

[CFJunkie]

I have two Savage 6.5mm Creedmoor rifles - a 12 LRP and a 10T-SR.
I have shot about 5000 rounds of 140 ELD-M bullets with both IMR4350 and IMR 4451 powders.
My two Savages have chambers that are pretty close to the 2.810 SAAMI recommendation so I haven't loaded out past 2.820.
In fact all of my newer Savage rifles have had chambers very close to SAAMI recommended O.A.L.
One even came from the factory with a chamber 0.005 shorter than SAAMI.

I have loaded almost exclusively with Lapua small primer brass with CCI BR-4 and CCI 400 primers. I have also tried Federal 205M primers.
I have tried large primer brass with Federal 210M primers. I abandoned the LRP brass when I got much better results with the CCI SRPs.
The BR-4s average 0.020 smaller groups than the CCI400 primers and 0.101 better than Federal 205Ms.
The Federal 210M large rifle primers average 0.045 larger than the BR-4s.
My data tells me that primers do make a difference in accuracy and I would suggest you experiment with some CCI SRPs.

5 round groups with the Hornady 140 gr. ELD-Ms have averaged as followed:
12 LRP - 26 inch bull barrel
IMR4451 powder - 0.336 - 165 groups - best load MV - 2651
IMR4350 powder - 0.391 - 43 groups

- best load MV - 2542

10T-SR - 24 inch semi-bull barrel
IMR4451 powder - 0.366 - 55 groups

- best load MV - 2403

IMR4350 powder - 0.375 =18 groups

- best load MV - 2408

You might try dropping the velocity a bit to see if you can find a bit more accuracy.
My two rifles shoot much more accurately with velocities further away from Pmax closer the middle of the load tables.
Hornady ELD-M 140 grain factory ammo averages 0.510 at 2710 fps.
That sounds a lot like the loads you are using and about the same group size range as well.

[zloe]

Very nice. Thank you for the info.
I've found the SRP to be very consistent.
I've also found a nice node in the 2500 range with my rifle. Mind if I ask your powder charge for those groups? I just find that the extra 200fps makes a huge difference when you're shooting at targets over 1k yards. Otherwise I'd be loading with less powder.
I will take your advice on the CCI SRP, I do have some after all..... I just have a lot more of the fiocchi SRPs.

Will post results when I get out again.

[CFJunkie]

Zloe,
Sorry to take so long on my response, I didn't see you follow-up.

The two rifles I have different rifle lengths. One is 26 inches and the other is 24 inches do the powder loads are different because I load for exit time.
That means that I load for each different powder and bullet weight so the bullet exits the muzzle at a specific time (1.361 msec. for the 26 inch and 1.256 msec. for the 24 inch) so the shock wave that travels up and down the barrel at 19,107 fps in the 3% carbon steel Savage barrels is at the chamber and as far away from the muzzle crown as possible.

Therefore, the powder loads are different for each length barrel and are slightly different for each bullet type used. The charge chosen is effected by the seating depth because seating the bullet out increased the volume behind the bullet base and lowers the velocity and pressure. It is also effected by trim length in the opposite degree - longer trim increases the velocity and pressure slightly.
I didn't see that you indicated the length of your barrel so I'm not sure my loads would be all that valuable. And last but not least, ammo temperature changes the velocity and pressure as well.
And I am using IMR4350 and IMR4451 Enduron powders not H4350.

But if it would help, here are a couple of good loads for each rifle.
Note that the loads include data on O.A.L., trim length, and temperature as well as charge.
The records showing two temperatures show what temp the charge was intended for an the temperature it was shot at.
The notation for wf is the wave front or exit time in msec.
The Lapua SRP indicates the brass and primer used.

12 LRP 26 inch barrel:
140 ELD-M IMR4350 powder

IMR4350 41.3 2.816 140 Hornady ELD Match 2685 case 1.911 CCI BR-4 wf 1.361 * Lapua SRP 54 deg. 12th reflection IMR4350 40.7 2.815 140 Hornady ELD Match 2671 case 1.915 CCI BR-4 wf 1.369 * Lapua SRP 70/66 deg. F. 12th reflection 140 ELD-M, IMR4451 powder IMR4451 38.6 2.806 140 Hornady ELD Match 2649 case 1.907 CCI BR4 wf 1.372 * Lapua SRP at 74/60 deg. F. 12th eflection IMR4451 38.6 2.814 140 Hornady ELD Match 2658 case 1.913 CCI BR4 wf 1.365 * Lapua SRP 70/70 deg. F. 12th reflection 10T-SR, 24 inch barrel: 140 ELD-M IMR4350 powder IMR4350 37.3 gr 2.815 140 Hornady Match 2402 1.914 CCI400 wf 1.475 * Lapua SRP 57 deg 14th reflection IMR4350 37.4 gr 2.815 140 Hornady Match 2408 1.914 CCI400 wf 1.470 * Lapua SRP 57 deg 14th reflection 140 ELD-M, IMR4451 powder IMR4451 39.7 gr 2.814 140 Hornady Match 2673 1.913 CCI BR-4 wf 1.260 * Lapua SRP 66/69 deg 12th reflection IMR4451 35.4 gr 2.807 140 Hornady Match 2389 1.911 CCI BR-4 wf 1.470 * Lapua SRP 44 deg 14th reflection