16 Lightweight Hunter accuracy woes

[Titan_Bow]

I have been fighting with this little gun for a while now, trying to get it to shoot well. I bought it last year as an elk rifle for my 13 year old. Its a 16 LWH in 6.5 Creedmoor with the tupperware stock and stainless. For the life of me, I cannot get this little gun to shoot. Initially, it was spitting out 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards, regardless of ammo. I do not handload, and part of the reason for going 6.5CM was the availability and variety of factory ammo.
After the intial few trips to the range, I took the rifle and skim bedded the action in the flimsy stock. I also took carbon arrow shafts and set them in JB Weld in the forearm in an attempt to stiffen it up. Got everything put back together, and went to the range again. Still, getting 2" groups pretty consistently.
I read some articles about "how to shoot a lightweight rifle" and took another trip yesterday. The best group I managed was 1 3/8" .

While thats not horrible, and more than adequate if this were going to be a deer rifle for my nephew in NC, it doesn't inspire the confidence necessary to take a poke a mulie at 300 yards or more, or spring bear, or cow elk. MY question is, especially to the guys that have one of these rifles... Am I pretty much at the max for what one of these little lightweight guns will do in its stock configuration? (ie. cheap stock, pencil thin barrel, very light weight) Would it be worth taking a detour from the lightweight theme, putting it in a boyds stock, etc. and seeing if I can end up with a 7lb. rifle that shoots better?

[Stumpkiller]

Carbon arrows are great for compression but not so much for lateral stiffness (think arrow paradox - see video below - and fishing rods). But as long as the barrel is free floated it doesn't matter, really.

My deer rifle is a M11 that has a light sporter weight barrel (in .260 Rem). I put it in a Boyd's Featherweight thumbhole stock and I can do three shot groups that can completely be hidden under a beer bottlecap . . . but NEVER a five shot group. They are invariably 1-1/2" as the barrel heats up. Pillar bedding and glassing the action (and lower "metal - including a metal trigger bow from GunShack) only helped a hair. And that could just be load development or getting the bore worn in.

Certainly beyond good enough for my hunting situations - but the quest for accuracy is never ending.

Review your cleaning methods and try other loadings. You may find one that the rifle prefers.

Carbon arrow pardox in slow motion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffw6m1GS-4k

[J.Baker]

Just for shits and giggles, take a few narrow layers of card paper (business cards will work) and put it between the barrel and the tip of the forend of the stock so that there's a little pressure pushing the stock away from the barrel. Free-floated barrels work great when you have a thick heavy barrel that isn't as susceptible to harmonics, but skinny barrels generally shoot better when there's a pressure point at the tip of the forearm. There's a reason most older (pre-1980's) hunting rifles didn't have free-floated barrels.

If the rifle shoots better with the pressure point you can play around with how the amount of pressure affects the accuracy by adding/removing layers of card stock.

[oldyankee]

+1 with J Baker's suggestion - I have seen this improve things in lighter barrel rifles, about 50% of the time. It is an inexpensive experiment and might give you another clue to try and then run your previous loads through it again. Sometimes, having the added damping of a pressure point on the barrel actually helps.

[NicfromAlabama]

How many rounds have you put through it?

[jpdown]

I've customized and developed loads for several different Savage LWH rifles (.260, 7mm08, 6.5 Creedmoor, 280AI). My experience with these rifles is as follows. The barrel needs to cool completely between shots for best accuracy potential. Three round groups on a cold barrel are the maximum before group size goes south. You've got to control the muzzle jump/torque by holding the forearm firmly in position on the bags and following through on the shot. I've got the most consistent accuracy when I replace the plastic trigger guard with a metal trigger guard. I believe the flimsy plastic trigger guard allows the action screw head to flex under recoil. The rear action screw will slowly loosen over time causing problems. Sometimes adding a forearm pressure point as mentioned above helps.

[Titan_Bow]

Thanks for all the feedback. I’m going to try and make it out to the range again and try the card trick with respect to the barrel /stock contact. Also try and play around a bit more with how I’m holding the rifle


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ninner]

I fought a 300 rum for a month and couldn’t get it to print. Parted it out and sold it, put the scope on a different rifle and damned if the problem didn’t follow the scope. I’m still kicking myself in the ass over that screwup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[smokinjoe]

My LWH in 6.5 cm was the same as yours but I did a few mods to get it to shoot sub moa. 1st I found a use accustock and ground my barrel lug to fit then I did a trigger mod and put a metal trigger guard on and proper stock to action torque and that little rifle shoots sub moa all day long. One thing like said above 3 shot groups are the max before they start to spread out.

[chetc]

one thing i tried years back on a sporter, it shot ok the first 2 or 3 shots, i tried the slight forend pressure with some shims, it helped, then i waxed or lightly oiled the bottom of the barrel and but a bead of silicone seal about 1" long in the stock let it set and it helped more than the shim, might be worth a try, if you don't care for the results just peel it off.

chet

[Bigeclipse]

I have been fighting with this little gun for a while now, trying to get it to shoot well. I bought it last year as an elk rifle for my 13 year old. Its a 16 LWH in 6.5 Creedmoor with the tupperware stock and stainless. For the life of me, I cannot get this little gun to shoot. Initially, it was spitting out 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards, regardless of ammo. I do not handload, and part of the reason for going 6.5CM was the availability and variety of factory ammo.
After the intial few trips to the range, I took the rifle and skim bedded the action in the flimsy stock. I also took carbon arrow shafts and set them in JB Weld in the forearm in an attempt to stiffen it up. Got everything put back together, and went to the range again. Still, getting 2" groups pretty consistently.
I read some articles about "how to shoot a lightweight rifle" and took another trip yesterday. The best group I managed was 1 3/8" .

While thats not horrible, and more than adequate if this were going to be a deer rifle for my nephew in NC, it doesn't inspire the confidence necessary to take a poke a mulie at 300 yards or more, or spring bear, or cow elk. MY question is, especially to the guys that have one of these rifles... Am I pretty much at the max for what one of these little lightweight guns will do in its stock configuration? (ie. cheap stock, pencil thin barrel, very light weight) Would it be worth taking a detour from the lightweight theme, putting it in a boyds stock, etc. and seeing if I can end up with a 7lb. rifle that shoots better?

I went through the same exact experience as you and I will echo what others have stated but it did not work for my wife's savage lady hunter which is VERY similar to the lightweight hunter you have. I first sent the rifle back to savage because I was getting anywhere from 2 to 5inch groups! I have NEVER personally shot a rifle that bad. Ive seen the occasional 3inch group with an ar15 but never with a hunting rifle. They sent it back to me stating they were able to get 1.5inch groups with their ammo which is not bad enough to replace the barrel. I then decided to buy all new REAL bottom metal in the hopes this would help. I then tried 6 different factory loadings along with numerous reloads. The best group I ever got was 1.75inches. Still unacceptable to me. At this point I have decided to say screw it and go semi-custom. I ordered a new barrel for 350$. Once it comes in I will need to glass bed the rifle with the new recoil lug, barrel nut, and barrel. Yes that means I have now spent an extra 500$ (barrel, go/nogo gauge, bottom metal) on this rifle. Yes that means I could have sold the Savage rifle added the 500$ to that and maybe purchased something like a Sako A5 pro hunter or higher end Remington BUT you can always get a lemon with one of those too and I would not feel good passing a lemon on to someone else. At least I know for fact this rifle will now shoot sub 1 MOA and chances are it will likely shoot much better. The 2 other savage rifles I rebarreled shoot consistence sub .5 MOA groups with my reloads and shoots sub 1 MOA groups with a few different factory offerings as well.

[Texas10]

Here is an inexpensive option that will probably do a lot to improve the accuracy potential of your LWH.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/search#...20110%20stocks

If you do a thorough search of their site you may find a good light weight walnut stock to fit your action.

If you enjoy working with wood, here's a link to a stock manufacture that allows endless options, but you do all the pillar bedding, sanding and finishing.
http://www.rifle-stocks.com/sporter_hunting_styles.htm

I built up a light weight .308 hunter from used parts purchased on this forum. Put a laminated stock under it and it'll lay the first two shots in overlapping holes at 100 yds with the third off by about an inch as the barrel heats up. That's with factory ammo. I never tried developing a hand load for it as I felt it was pointless.

Just a thought, are you sure your scope is not contributing to the accuracy issues? Do you have a known good scope you can trade out for testing purposes.

[Titan_Bow]

I’m going to be ordering a Boyd’s laminate for it soon, I still have not decided which one I want. I initially thought the scope as well, but I noticed in my last shooting session a big difference in group sizes depending on how I held the rifle. My hope is the extra weight of the Boyd’s and the more stable laminate stock will make it a little more forgiving, and still be s relatively lightweight rifle (under 7 lbs).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Titan_Bow]

I went through the same exact experience as you and I will echo what others have stated but it did not work for my wife's savage lady hunter which is VERY similar to the lightweight hunter you have. I first sent the rifle back to savage because I was getting anywhere from 2 to 5inch groups! I have NEVER personally shot a rifle that bad. Ive seen the occasional 3inch group with an ar15 but never with a hunting rifle. They sent it back to me stating they were able to get 1.5inch groups with their ammo which is not bad enough to replace the barrel. I then decided to buy all new REAL bottom metal in the hopes this would help. I then tried 6 different factory loadings along with numerous reloads. The best group I ever got was 1.75inches. Still unacceptable to me. At this point I have decided to say screw it and go semi-custom. I ordered a new barrel for 350$. Once it comes in I will need to glass bed the rifle with the new recoil lug, barrel nut, and barrel. Yes that means I have now spent an extra 500$ (barrel, go/nogo gauge, bottom metal) on this rifle. Yes that means I could have sold the Savage rifle added the 500$ to that and maybe purchased something like a Sako A5 pro hunter or higher end Remington BUT you can always get a lemon with one of those too and I would not feel good passing a lemon on to someone else. At least I know for fact this rifle will now shoot sub 1 MOA and chances are it will likely shoot much better. The 2 other savage rifles I rebarreled shoot consistence sub .5 MOA groups with my reloads and shoots sub 1 MOA groups with a few different factory offerings as well.

Interestingly enough, I built an AR-15 for my son,, chambered in 6.8SPC that will shoot sub MOA at 100yds with SSA’s factory load with 110 AccuBonds. He’s killed 2 deer with it so far. I would be more than happy if I can get this little Savage to shoot as well as our AR!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk