Reloading Model 16 with H4350, 143ELD-X and New Hornady Brass any suggestions

[wazizit]

My sister bought this rifle last year and wants to hunt it this year. Does anybody out there have a load that I could start off with? This rifle is so light it feels like a toy. Every thing I own is 25"+ and weighs more than twice as much. I tried 6 different loads that work in my other Creedmoor's and get a 2" group at 100yrd's. I was hoping not to start at the beginning. Thanks for your help. I have 16lb's of H4350 and 2500 143ELD-x bullets

[lonestardiver]

Every rifle is different up to and including distance to the lands. You may need to start at an arbitrary load and increase powder charges by a set amount to see where things start to group and go from there like any load development. Bear in mind that things like action screw torque can have an effect to. Look up OCW (optimum charge weight), there is a system for load development that seems to be pretty decent and gives good starting points as there are nodes where the barrel harmonics are at the end of the vibration and therefore accuracy is more easily obtained.

[hafejd30]

Tell us what the loads you tried already are. That would give us a starting point to help you with.

[wazizit]

I had 115 of the Hornady 129SST's laying around that I wasn't going to use.( Midway's brown box special 250 for $45.00) I could only get them to shoot 3/4 moa out of my Browning's. I started off at 39.5g of H4350 and went up to 42.5g in .3 increments. 2 nodes in there that produced actual groups, big but groups. Everything on the gun was loose.(Cabela's with scope special) The scope mounts were backwards and the screws were from so tight I thought I might break one off to almost falling out. I completely forgot to torque the action screws. Thanks, I feel like an idiot. I couldn't find any info or loads on accurateshooter or 65creedmoor websites for this particular rifle.

[wazizit]

Do you happen to know how much to torque the front and back action bolts?

[Texas10]

Here ya go. http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...torque-tuning/

Tell us what you've done to inspect her rifle and confirm everything is tight and correctly adjusted. I've seen guys show up on the range with actions loose in the stock, scopes mounted backwards, you name it. Not saying your sis's rifle suffers these faults, just making suggestions.

Also, tell us how you check for and clean out copper buildup. My 6.5 with EABCO accuracy barrel is a copper mine. 5 shots is all I get before accuracy starts to seriously degrade due to copper build up. I use an endoscope camera and the view down the muzzle shows bright copper on all lands and grooves after just a few rounds of shooting Bergers, SMKs etc.

[JASmith]

The 147 gr ELD-X is a rather long bullet.

What twist rate does your sister’s rifle have?

If it is 1-9 or slower, the bullets may not be stabilizing as well as needed for good accuracy.

A solution might come from observing that 100 grain-class monometal hunting bullets tend to anchor game just as well as 150 grain cup and core bulltets like the ELD.

These may be enough shorter that better accuracy is obtained ian addition to milder recoil.

[JASmith]

The 147 gr ELD-X is a rather long bullet.

What twist rate does your sister’s rifle have?

If it is 1-9 or slower, the bullets may not be stabilizing as well as needed for good accuracy.

A solution might come from observing that 100 grain-class monometal hunting bullets tend to anchor game just as well as 150 grain cup and core bullets like the ELD.

These may be enough shorter that better accuracy is obtained ian addition to milder recoil.

[CFJunkie]

2" groups at 100 yards with any Savage sounds like something isn't right. With a 6.5 Creedmoor, it really sounds worse than that.
I assume that the Model 16 has a light hunting barrel. I have an old Winchester Model 70 in .270 that will put shoot two bullets touching at the point of aim when dead cold and then move the next POI out 1/4 inch further for each successive bullet as the hunting barrel heats up. Since the rifle will is intended for hunting, it is deadly accurate because you won't ever get more than one shot, maybe two, when hunting anyway. But it barely shoots groups under 1 MOA on its best days because each bullet packs 57 grains of powder, creating a lot of heat.

For starters, I would check to be sure the scope mount and rings are torqued to at least 20 inch-lbs. and the action screws are also torqued correctly.
Then I suggest you stop worrying about shooting groups with shots in succession and only shoot the barrel when it is fouled and cold, just like it would be if you took a shot when you were hunting.
The issue will be how close to the point of aim will a cold barrel shot land, after the scope is correctly zeroed, not where the rifle puts five successive shots when the barrel is heating up.
Wait as much as an hour between shots to get the barrel cold and measure how well the rifle does that way. Then you'll know if the rifle will hunt.

You might also check to see if there are any parts of the barrel that are hanging up on the stock.
Both of my 6.5s are mounted in aluminum framed stocks - the 12 LRP has a HS Precision stock and the 10T-SR has an Accu-stock.
I don't know what a model 16 has for a stock, but if it is like the 12 FV, it might not have the aluminum stiffeners. That might cause some accuracy problems with repeated shots.
It also might keep the rifle with a cold barrel from consistently hitting near the POA.

Both shoot very accurately with IMR4350 and I would suspect that H4350 would shoot just as accurately, although it is slightly different and would use different loads.

The 12 LRP likes heavy bullets - 142 gr SMKs, and 147 ELD-M - the best but shoots 130 TMKs and 140 gr ELD-m and 3 kinds of Berger 140s almost as accurately and about 5.5 times more accurately than you are experiencing. With its 26 inch barrel, it is most accurate with muzzle velocities around 2665 fps with 140 gr and 143 gr bullets.
The 10T-SR is slightly less accurate but prefers the 130 and 140 grain bullets to the heavier bullets but still groups the heavies under 1/2 inch at 100 yards. With its 24 inch barrel, it is most accurate with muzzle velocities around 2400 with 140 grain and 143 grain bullets.

Neither rifle likes the 140 grain SMKs, I think because the amount of bullet body in the rifling is significantly shorter for the 140 SMK than all the other bullets.

I, like you, would expect the 143 ELD-X bullets to perform well in the Model 16, unless you are pushing them up close to Pmax in a light rifle with a flexible stock.

[Robinhood]

Brass manufacture? How many rounds on the brass? More than 5? thinking neck tension.

Primers?

[wazizit]

Once I got the action bolts torqued correctly I finally saw some groups. The best groups with H4350 were at 40.8g. I found 2 different seating depths that were under 1 moa. The first was at .090 OTL (.712") and the second was .005 OTL (.346") at 100 yards. Not bad for a 22" barrel with a plastic stock and a $100 scope. I decided on .005 OTL since I measure every bullet before I start reloading. I went ahead and permanently setup her cheap Hornady dies in one of my T6 heads. Hey I want to thank all of you for your help. It's nice to find a savage community out there. Again thanks.