338 RUM or Edge Build

[shorin]

I know there is a lot of information already out there regarding the 338 RUM vs Edge, etc. and I've read all that. I need some additional information before I start building a new rifle....

First of all, my use for the rifle is to mainly punch paper / hit steel. I might do a little long range hunting, but accuracy at ranges beyond my 308 is the big goal. I may even use it for some tactical shoots that go between 100 and 800 yards for the fun of it. It will always run 300gr SMKs or equivalent/better.

My first question is velocity. Due to several reasons I'd like as short of a barrel as possible. I'm thinking 24" max, and would prefer something closer to 20". How much will I be losing with the short barrels, and would the RUM be superior with the shorter barrel, or does the Edge still reign supreme? I will be using a brake at a minimum, and would love to put a can on it in the future if $$ allows.

My second question is whether anyone has successfully converted an Edge/RUM to a detachable box mag on the Savage platform? I haven't found any information that it has been done, but there are a lot of creative people on here... If it has been done - how?

Thanks,

Danny

[358Hammer]

Insert Quote
I know there is a lot of information already out there regarding the 338 RUM vs Edge, etc. and I've read all that. I need some additional information before I start building a new rifle....

First of all, my use for the rifle is to mainly punch paper / hit steel. I might do a little long range hunting, but accuracy at ranges beyond my 308 is the big goal. I may even use it for some tactical shoots that go between 100 and 800 yards for the fun of it. It will always run 300gr SMKs or equivalent/better.

My first question is velocity. Due to several reasons I'd like as short of a barrel as possible. I'm thinking 24" max, and would prefer something closer to 20". How much will I be losing with the short barrels, and would the RUM be superior with the shorter barrel, or does the Edge still reign supreme? I will be using a brake at a minimum, and would love to put a can on it in the future if $$ allows.

My second question is whether anyone has successfully converted an Edge/RUM to a detachable box mag on the Savage platform? I haven't found any information that it has been done, but there are a lot of creative people on here... If it has been done - how?

Thanks,

Danny

Having done a number of short barreled Edges and other 338's, in my opinion purely from a ballistic standpoint you can achieve the maximum velocity with a High B.C. Bullet without going to the case capacity of the Edge.
The larger the case the harder it is to fill the case with a faster burning powder. 2700-2750 with a 300gr Sierra and a 19" barrel. Gain 100fps if one nitrides the barrel. One can achieve the same thing with a 338 X 375 Ruger using less faster burning powder.

I am not trying to talk anyone out of the Edge as I like all of mine and would not go backwards and swap them out for anything.

Neal

[sinman]

I would go less case capacity also in that short of barrel, my question is do you need it to be a 338? A 7mm or 6.5mm would both shine really well at those ranges. I would say a 7mm wsm would probably be a better choice then the edge or equal.

[shorin]

2700 fps would get me out to 1500 yards, which is where I want to be. I'll have to research the 338x375 Ruger as a possible alternative. I'm not stuck on one cartridge, but I definitely want it bigger than a 308 bullet which pushes me to the 338s. I've played with the small and fast bullets, and I'm wanting to start playing with something a little bigger...

Of three cartridges, any show better natural accuracy than the others out of short barrels?

Thanks,

Danny

[358Hammer]

Actually I would have to recommend the 7WSM as Devin did. I would also recommend the 180 grain match bullet as well as any number of 168's or even the HAT 200 grain.

If you nitride a barrel (I have several) you are going to be excited in the velocity gain as I have been. I shot a 24" 300WSM yesterday and the day before and the day before that had the barrel nitrided. 3160fps with 180gr Sierra match!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes it makes a huge difference and I haven't added powder yet to my original load.

Neal

[Dennis]

I have a similiar thread out there somewhere.

I think I want to build a 338 Edge.

Why not just get a 338 RUM?

Tell me the difference?

[358Hammer]

Edge gets about 100fps more velocity than the Rum is all I can see for difference.

Neal

[Dennis]

WOW, I doesn't really look like it's worth it to build a 338 Edge! :-\

[sinman]

The edge does have a gain, in the longer barrels you will see more, plus there is "good" 300 rum brass so you dont have to settle on remington brass p.s. ill reply to your PM in a little bit

[Dennis]

http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,25561.msg184627.html#msg184627

http://savageshooters.com/SavageForu...html#msg184627

Sinman, this is what I am looking for! Thanks for the reply!

PS: With a muzzle break!

[pd721el]

Another plus for the Edge is the extra case capacity when loading 250 and lighter bullets. This is especially true when loading at magazine length and have alot of bullet in the case. The Defensive Edge load for the 250 SMK and RL-25 is 99grs at 3049 in a 30" barrel. The max book load for a 338RUM is 95gr at 2915 and that is about 100% capacity. In the 200 gr the Edge is 104gr of RL-25 at 3390 vs. RUM at 101.0 compressed at 3193. These my not be my 1st choice in bullets but you never know what your gun will like.

[bigngreen]

For a short barreled repeater the 338 Norma Mag seems to be the latest greatest. Hopefully I'll know by fall, putting to together a 338 Norma and 338 RUM.

[shorin]

I've looked at the 338 Norma mag, but it has a 416 Rigby parent case just like the 338 Lapua. I'd rather stick with the standard magnum bolt head or I'd be all over it...

[BrettSass844]

7mm for sure if you are set on those barrel lengths. the juice is definitely not worth the squeeze on a short barrel 338. It would be like having a corvette but with a cobalt transmission. :) A guy over on the hide built a 338 ultra that is close to ther velocity of a edge. But his barrel is 32" and he is showing slight pressure signs. Any caliber with a barrel of 24" or shorter is going to be tough to get that far down range due to the lack of power behind the high BC projectiles. It can be done but its not easy from what I understand.

[shorin]

No, I definitely want to play with something bigger than 300 cal. If I was going to go smaller, I'd probably play with a 260 or similar.

I know that these cartridges are designed for longer barrels, but I like shorter guns. Easier to carry, especially in the woods. And if I add a suppressor, it will be plenty long enough... I'm also curious what I can get a short barreled 338 to do.

Looks like either the 338 RUM or Edge will fit in a modified AI 338 LM mag. Problem is that I will be very limited by the OAL. There are longer mags available for the Remington (Wyatt's or Seekins), but not the Savage. I'm looking into the CDI long action DBM kits to see if they'll fit the 338 mags and what the max OAL they can take (I've read 3.600" and 3.725"). With that short of an OAL, a 250gr may be a better choice, but I'll probably try the 300s too.

Danny

[ctrout]

You know, I keep seeing this lament over the lack of lengthened magazines (a-la-Wyatt's) for the Savage. I'd almost put money on Fred over at SSS adding this service to his line-up pretty soon. Especially if the demand continues to increase. Let's all sign a petition. I'd certainly pay for it. The work would have to be done during hunting season though when I wouldn't be shooting my Edge (bench gun) anyway. I know it takes a long time to get work done at SSS but when it's done, it's oh so nice!

[jc]

I just sent my action and mag to stockade to have a bottom metal built for a Accurate Mag 5 rd lapua mag that is 3.85. The mag needed some serious tweaking to fit the ultramag case but when it is done it should be sweet.

[ctrout]

Price for that work?

[shorin]

Looks like the CDI long action will only work with the magnum mags for now. This limits length to 3.600". Sounds like one for the 338LM mags may be coming in the future (3.727" oal)...

[jc]

Price for that work?

He normaly charges $200 for the bottom metal instaled in your stock plus you have to buy the ai mag. This is a bit diferent as he will have to redesign the whole thing to take the larger mag. He said it would be less than $300 and I will be inleting the stock and installing it myself. The mag cost me $79.

[pd721el]

Here a pic you may find interesting. I love the 338 Edge it is great. I own a custom 338 edge repeater based on a lawton LA and a wyatt ext box. The reamer is the PT&G std 338 edge set up for a repeater. Max OAL to the land is 2.735 and this fits nicely in the box, but is a compressed load at 92gr H1000.
In the pic the top bullet is a 300 SMK, The top round is a 300 SMK loaded to the rifling in my gun 2.735. The second round is a 300 SMK loaded at 2.935. This should fit in the new Seekins bottom metal I have coming. the lower bullets are 250 SMK and Accubond. This just shows how much bullet you are sticking in the case to have a repeater.
FWIW!!! What I've learned is that If I would do it over I'd put together a single shot and throat it long. Then you don't have to fight the mag box when reloading.

[img width=600 height=448]http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii326/pd721el/Picture006.jpg[/img]

[358Hammer]

Thank you so much for taking the time putting together this pictoral expletive.

This graphic explanation is so much easier to appreciate.

My Edge's with 225 Accubond's are at 3.850. The match 245gr Lehigh's are closer to your 300SMK in OAL.

Neal

[BrettSass844]

Here is a great article on barrel length. A shorter barrel wouldn't be so bad running the 250s.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles...l_velocity.htm

[ESSCEE]

This is getting scary ??? Is there no way to make a repeater that will hold the larger 300's and properly work? seems by the pictures that you will need another .2 at least in mag OAL capacity. What is the optimum OAL for the EDGE round? I am researching this same build and definitely want a repeater as well however I want it to be right.

From Defensive Edge, Sean Carlock's websight he lists several different loads 8 to be exact, 6 list OAL of 3.785 and the other 2 have OAL of 3.685 and 3.725. All the loads with 3.785 OAL are 300gr bullets, the 3.685 OAL is a 250gr, and the 3.725 is a 200gr.

Is it possible to get a mag to properly hold and be capable of feeding the OAL of 3.785?

Scott

[learjet]

ESSCEE i went through all the issues ur seeing when i was planning my rifle. i went w 338 rum, and i can tellya that for it to function as a repeater w the factory magazine i need to keep my OAL to 3.590 or a bit less. i havent bothered tryin any 300g bullets, but w various 250s i cant use the slow bulky powders many prefer - the loads are awful compressed. fortunately my rifle likes H4831SSC, and gives me the velocities i wanted w my 28" barrel, without using compressed loads. my rifle shoots right with my buddys 338 lapua, and cost less than half as much to build

if stockade is doin a mag conversion im guessin hes gonna get mighty busy hehe...jc is stockade modifying the magazine? is the issue the feed lips?