Scope won’t zero ! Help !

[amboy49]

I just purchased a new Savage 10T in .223. I added a new out of the box Vortex Viper 6-24x50 using new Vortex rings on the factory picatinny rail. I loaded 50 new Lapua brass with Winchester primers, 26 gr of Varget, and 55 gr Nosler bullets.

I took the gun to the range today to shoot in the barrel and zero the scope. The elevation adjusted to the correct poi but I had to use quite a bit of the adjustment. The windage was a different story. The gun shot 14” to the left and I ran out of adjustment. The group, at 100 yards, was 1” MOA. I took the scope off the rail and remounted it torquing the screws to 20” lbs with only very minimal difference to the poi.

If the rifle didn’t shoot a good group I would have suspected the rings were the problem (?). I haven’t take the scope off yet to see if the rail is mounted wrong but also have my doubts that could be causing the problem.

Asking for help or suggestions for ways to begin to figure out how to correct the problem.

Thanks in advance.

[Texas10]

I have the 12BVSS in 223, same scope, EGW base, and I've tried a host of rings, now using Warne.
Vortex warns about over torquing scope ring screws, 15 to 18 in lbs is all they recommend. My vortex locked up at 20 in lbs. torque, fortunately I carry a torque wrench with me to the range and backed it off after remembering I'd read something about over torquing the Vortex.


Here's some reading that might help.https://vortexnation.wordpress.com/2...ur-riflescope/


I'd recommend you start by taking everything apart and recheck the base and screws. Install and torque the front base screw ONLY and confirm the base is tight on the action, and the screw is not bottoming out on the tenon threads and giving you a false torque reading. Then once you have the scope in the rings, tighten the screw torque to about 10 in lbs and visually verify that the elevation and windage turrets work throughout their entire range, then slowly creep up the torque while again verifying after you get to 15 in lbs. Bore sight it again at 100 yds and see if it's still-mis aligned. If it is, the Burris rings allow for adjusting out that error.

Here is another base that will allow for adjusting out windage errors while mounting.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold...iece-base.html


The two screws on the rear mount allow you to move the rear ring left or right as you tighten it down.

[Andrew.Riehle]

My new Vortex was not centered or mechanical zero when I got it new. I found a video on Youtube that showed how to center your cross hairs using a mirror. Basically if you put the objective end up to a mirror and look through the scope, you'll see two sets of cross hairs. Adjust the turrets until you see one set. Also I used a scope mounting kit from Wheeler. It helps to ensure that the rings are aligned true and has a lapping bar and compound to remove some of the surface of the rings to make a perfect alignment. The kit I got came with a in/lbs torque wrench and tips. If after ensuring your scope is truly centered and mounted properly your still grouping way off... remember that Vortex has the VIP warranty. If there is something wrong with the scope, they will fix it or replace it.

[charlie b]

Is the barrel straight? Saw a $5000 custom rifle at the range last month and the barrel was off. Never found out if the barrel threads, barrel face, or receiver face was the issue. He had the same problem. Shot half inch 5 shot groups but they were about a foot to the left.

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[kcb38]

Screw holes in the receiver off center possibly?

[Robinhood]

Does the barrel sit centered in the stock?

[Fotheringill]

I have a Model 12 F/TR in .223.

Mounting holes were made at Savage.

I have learned a few things for my modest mind about mounts, etc.

Just because something is done at the factory does not mean it is done correctly.

If you are near the end of any scope adjustment, something is wrong. Assuming the scope is ok, my bet is that it is the rings.

My strong suggestion is to to get Burris Signature Z rings or Xtreme Tactical Z rings in an appropriate height for your rifle. The plastic inserts will allow all the adjustment you are going to need and will not mar the finish on the scope.

The 15-18 inch pounds is the generally accepted torque. Way too much and you might wind up crushing the tube a bit and too little will not ensure the scope is tight in the rings.

[bearcatrp]

Get a long straight edge and see if it’s centered down the barrel. Chances are the holes are drilled crooked. But as mentioned above, re center your scope. Screw turrent one way all the way. Turn back other way counting the clicks. Divide by 2 and go back half way. Will be close enough. No reason to buy more rings IF this is a savage screw up. If determined the holes are not drilled properly, contact savage to have them issue a return mailing label to ship back on their dime. Am reading more online about savage rifles scope mount holes not drilled correctly from the factory.

[Fotheringill]

They SHOULD take care of it if crooked. How and where new holes will be drilled is another story altogether.

[bearcatrp]

If you determine the holes are not aligned, and don’t want to ship it off to savage and wait over a month, the Burris rings mentioned above work. I have a set on my savage 338LM FCP. Mine is not out of alignment but use them for the 20 MOA adjustment. The inserts that come with the rings can be used for horizontal or vertical correction.

[Fotheringill]

You would be amazed at the +/- that can be gotten with a +20 rail and two sets of +/- 20 inserts for vertical or +/- 40 with two sets of inserts +/- 20's for horizontal.
My druthers would be dead straight holes, but one has to work with what one has.

[Gunmunkey]

Double check the crown of your barrel for a burr. Can easily pull bullets. Otherwise I would suspect rings. I bought a used Vortex once and the previous owner had over-torqued it. I had similar sighting issues and sent it in. I got a phone call two days later from a living breathing human being at Vortex. She told me the bad news that it was damaged and beyond repair. Also that they didn't make that model anymore. So they sent me a brand new model free of charge. Guess which company gets all my optics business and praise now.

[AZ_GUN_NUT]

Seeing how I work at a gun shop and sell new Savages I can tell you exactly what is wrong. The scope mounts are loose. They need to be removed, wiped clean and remounted and properly torqued with blue loctite
We do this for every rifle we sell, they all come like that, doesn't matter what brand.

[tobnpr]

If nothing is shifting, it could be a defective optic, or an issue with the mounting holes on the receiver not being parallel to the centerline of the receiver.

The simplest way to rule out the optic itself in this situation is to replace with one that's known to be "good". If the issue persists, it's most likely the receiver mounting holes. I've not seen it before, but holes off-axis on the mount itself would cause the same issue, so I'd measure these to be sure both are centered on the mount.

[Robinhood]

1) Remove scope and tighten everything. Use inch pound torque screwdriver if possible. Reinstall scope and use correct torque.

2) Go back to range and shoot group starting at 25 yards. Do not move anything. Group should be close. Correct impact to 1" or 1.5" below bullseye.

If you are unable to zero scope: is it left/right or up/down or scattered.

If it is scattered

3) Install a scope of known precision. Repeat #2).

If it is left/right up/down issue with both scopes then contact Savage or you can try the Burris rings.

For me I encourage you to send it back to Savage. Another reason I think it is critical for the face of the action to be trued if you are building a Savage.

[DannoBoone]

Having had years of frustration with a 10mlII with the same problem Amboy is having, I've come to the conclusion that
the receiver barrel threads were not cut true with the action.

The original barrel shot so low that there was not enough scope elevation to get it to zero. Burris Signature Rings with
offset inserts solved the problem. Suggestions were to get a trued barrel nut and an aftermarket recoil lug made to exact
measurements. That made no difference.

A .458 barrel replaced the .50 which shot very low.

A .451 barrel replaced the .458 topped with the same Vortex Viper 6-24x50 which shot a full 15" to the left! Again, offset
Signature rings corrected for the problem. Later, I got a different breech plug which required head spacing again. Scope
settings were reset. It then shot 15" high.

No matter how head spacing is done, there is always powder burns from around the primer onto the primer face. To me,
this indicates that no matter what is done primers do not sit flush with the bottom of the primer pocket. (I now use upgraded
breech plugs which have true bottoms for tight fits.) For me, that's just an aggravation since the rifle is very accurate.

However, IF the receiver barrel threads are not true in a center fire and because of that, the case heads do not make full
contact with the face of the bolt, would that change case heads to the point of inaccurate reloads?

[Robinhood]

Hmmm

[tadawson]

Gen-1 Viper PST? If so, I have the same scope and problem, but on mine, the problem is definitely the scope. With a 20MOA down ring set (Burris with the inserts) I could not get it centered even boresighting prior to firing a single round. After much futzing, I took out the 'down' (and verified no left/right change) and then reattempted zero. As soon as I got closer to center elevation, I had full windage, and was able to zero pretty close to center windage! I then put the rifle in a rest, and put the reticle on a reference point, and started rolling in down. After 4 to 5 MIL down, the reticle began to move diaginally, and at about 16 MIL down or so, I had lost the ability to add left windage! Back off the elevation, and windage range returned . . . Something inside is interfering, and in a way that sounds very similar to what is being seen here. In any case, mine is going in . . . Oh, and rings just finger snug when seeing this . . . was not done yet, so overtorque is not a possibility . . .

[amboy49]

Just to bring some finality to this thread I will post the results of my second trip to the range. I continued with my same recipe - new Lapua brass, CCI II benchrest primers, 26.5 grs of Varget, 55 gr Berger Target bulkets, with an OAL of 2.260 with no work on determining the best bullet seating depth. After bore sighting my first bullet strike was 6” low and left. I tracked the impact into the bullseye and then settle down to shoot a group. Including the rounds from the first range visit I now have 52 rounds thru the gun. My 5 round group from a bench using front and rear bags ended up .375” Mia at 100 yards. I gladly post a pic but can’t figure out how to attach one. I plan now to play with the bullet seating depth a little and then move back to 200 and 300 yards to get ready for prairie dogs !

The bottom line is I did a lousy job of centering the rings on the picatinny rail. I removed the scope and made certain I had the rings down in the grooves the second time. Amazing what a properly mounted scope will do for accuracy.