6.5-06 loading issues

[Whynot]

I am reloading for my 6.5-06- and am having some issues that are confusing me- so i thought I'd try for some different perspective. I was trying to determine how much shoulder bump I was getting so I was using the Hornady head space comparators. And case after case my headspace was growing after i full length sized. It was usually by about +.003.

I was running the case all the way in the die- but my headspace was still increasing. I pulled the de-primer and expander ball out, but that didn't change anything. I then tried the no-go and go-gauge in my chamber and things were correct. On the Hornady set i was using insert C... but i tried it with B and D and they both showed an increase in length also.

The only thing I could figure was my chamber has a different shoulder angle than the Hornady Die? The cases do size hard- but it seems like it is more on body taper than on the shoulder. I only have 40 rounds through this barrel but so far it has shot good.

Savage 110 action, ER Shaw barrel, Quality Cartridge Brass (they were the only ones i could find that had 6.5mm-06) and hornady 30-06 resized brass. I can close the bolt on the resized brass- but it requires to much force.

[Robinhood]

Are you head spaced too short?
It is common for brass to grow before the shoulder makes contact. If you chamber is shorter than your die to holder then the shoulder will not bump. You could possibly need to trim the die or holder or correct the headspace if needed. There is not a lot of room for error, stranger things have happened.

Brass spring back is also a possibility or a portion of the issue..
How many times has the brass been fired. Do you anneal?
What cases are you using? (270 Win for example)

[Stumpkiller]

It takes a few firings too get brass to the full expanded chamber dimensions - especially with moderate loads.

I have a set of the Redding graduated cartridge holders and use the 0.010" offset for the first few firings (I use the full-length die), then move back to 0.008"

[Three44s]

I would figure out a way to soot up a fully sized casing and carefully chamber the casing and carefully extract it. Then inspect it for contact points.

If that does not solve your mystery I would then create a chamber casting to have a picture of your chamber.

Three44s

[mnbogboy2]

Seen exact same thing several times.
Robinhood says the same thing.
Couple things come to mind here. Hard sizing do to chamber & die differences (normal due to tolerances). This type of sizing always lengthens the brass. If the shoulder isn't "bumped" enough the brass ends up long to the point of hard chambering.
Being go-gauge fits we know chamber is not below minimum length but it may be minimum (snug go-gauge). If the die was cut on the long side of tolerance, then it might not be capable e of "bumping" enough without modification (or shell holder mods).
Three cures with current parts & equipment:
1) take down shell holder a few thousandths.
2) take material off the bottom of the die.
3) adjust barrel headspace (between go & no go). Might be best as ease of sizing (less squeeze in die).
My .02
Randy

[Whynot]

Thanks for the replies. I did soot up a piece of brass and it is obvious that it is hitting on the whole shoulder. I have only used the brass twice so i haven't annealed. After i sized a piece of brass i ran it back into the die and it went supper easy- so I wouldn't think bounce back is a issue.

As long as my gauge is good then headspace is right on- it closes easily on the go-gauge. (it's a PTG... if that makes any difference) I'm sure that i could back the barrel out a little bit- because it doesn't feel like the bolt is about to close on the no-go. That would probably be the easiest fix- but wouldn't that make sizing even more difficult? If i move the chamber away from the bolt (even just a few thousandths) then the brass will grow that much more- and I will be overworking it? I'm not very impressed with the Quality Cartridge brass-- I had one with a split sidewall after 2 firings.... but that could be partially caused by whatever issue i'm trying to figure out, but the Hornady brass looks good.

I was thinking about firing 3 rounds and then sending the brass and the die to Hornady to have them match them up. But if you all think that backing the barrel out to the longest "go" would help then I'll try that....

Is it possible that Hornady and ER Shaw used slightly different dimensions? I thought that since it is a SAMMI round that they would be the same?

[mnbogboy2]

When sizing for the slightly (.002-.004) longer chamber the brass will not go into the die as far. Because of less "squeeze" on the body taper the brass will not lengthen as much. The result should allow the shoulder to be bumped what you need.
A hint would be to add a thickness or two of scotch tape to your go-gauge. Ejector removal is recommended.

Another test before you change the barrel headspace is to slip a piece of shimstock between your shell holder and the case head (remove the de-capping pin) Again .002-.004 -or more if you can fit it in between. This may be enough to get the bump you need. Assuming you are already camming over kind of hard. Also once cammed over hold it there for several seconds to minimize springback.

Also your brass sounds "hard" and annealing will help. It is possible the brass is responsible for the problem.

[mnbogboy2]

If shim stock in the shell holder solves the bump problem then if you remove material off the top of the shell holder it should cure the problem. I use wet/dry emery paper laid flat on a piece of window glass. Using a circular motion it takes a while to remove the .002 to .00? you need.

[mnbogboy2]

As far as hornady, shaw and saami. All could be in tolerance but at different ends of the spectrum. Add PTG in that equation and easily these things can cause misfits.

[Whynot]

Thanks mnbog, Most of that made sense to me, and I will give it a try! Just one more question so i have it right in my head-- Increasing the headspace will only make is size easier if I only run the brass into the die until it bumps the shoulder? But if i increased the headspace and ran the brass until the shell holder touched the die then that would increase squeeze on the body and make is more difficult to size?

I use the redding competition shell holders so that was my plan, but after working through them and the standard holder and getting no bump it was on to plan B. On my reloading routine the biggest thing I could improve on is annealing, I hate doing it. My current system is a pain so I put it off too long (although these cases were annealed when i got them- and just two firings- so that's a first).

Thanks.

[mnbogboy2]

The point of lengthening the chamber (and case) is so that the shoulder will bump the die sooner than it does now. Then a slight amount more will get the case length where you need & want it. The shell holder does not have to touch the die. But your competition set probably has one where you would touch. Those shell holders get "longer" from standard. If they made a "reverse" set than you would have already found the right one. But your current set up is sizing stiff already. Lengthening the case (head space) will help alleviate the stiff sizing.
The longer the chamber the less percentage of the case head you will have to "squeeze" into the die.
This is tough to visulize, but the little bit of taper gets harder to squeeze down the farther you push it into the die. A little goes a long way (so to speak).
Hope this long winded explanation helps.

[Whynot]

I think that I have found the problem- and it is the die. Before i adjusted my headspace I wanted to make sure i wasn't missing something- so i took one of my re-sized cases and ran it into my 30-06 die (with the expander removed). Bingo- it easily bumped the shoulder (not all of it because of the bigger neck, but enough to where i was measuring). That answered the shoulder bump part, but as the case was already re-sized I didn't know about the really hard sizing. I went and shot 3 more rounds- measured and sized them. They all had headspace of 2.043. I ran 1 into the 6.5mm-06 and it sized extremely hard and measured 2.045. The other 2 i ran into the 30-06 die and they measured 2.036 - so I am capable of getting .007 bump. They also sized easily-

So i am fairly confident that's the deal- I'll see what Hornady says when I e-mail them.