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Thread: 10" Gong from 857 Yards.... Tips, tricks, suggestions?

  1. #26
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    You're going to make me post the video of the mover stage from CORE aren't you..... lol There's a number of things at play as always...

    I wouldn't choose prone if it wasn't the best position for the situation... But I would be confident in my ability to pick a position to make a solid shot as well as consideration for distance, wind conditions, etc.

    That's the point though, OP isn't hunting here...... Steel isn't going anywhere... I've shot movers in numerous positions at distances out to 600yds of course deer don't typically run in a straight line. Patience is always a virtue.

  2. #27
    Basic Member SageRat Shooter's Avatar
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    I am only shooting steel in this situation, I am completely new to this LR shooting thing, but the bug has bitten me and I just want to keep improving. I am becoming a huge fan of the prone position as I know and feel it to be the most stable position I've ever shot from. While I am practicing at 850 in this situation, it is to train for shooting rabbits, fox, badger, PD, coyote, and other varmints at that range. I do not ever plan on shooting anything bigger than that at that range or longer... 400 would probably be as far out as I would try shooting deer and for sure Elk (and that's after I have practiced and felt confident at 850 or more) as the round doesn't carry enough energy for a clean kill past that distance. Additionally, my primary hunting rifle is actually my 30-06 which I wouldn't be attempting a shot past 200 with it ever. Most of my hunting is done brush hog style and climbing over deadfall. there only a handful of spots where I can swap rifles and go perch myself on top of the landing and glass out to 400 yards or more.

    This is practice for me, and a hobby I've taken up as I've aged.... I can't play hoops anymore, my golf game sucks after not playing for 5 years (my body won't move the same) Big mountain snow skiing is virtually non existent and my class 5 kayaking days are behind me as well.

    The only thing left that gets me any kind of "rush" seems to be shooting... The farther out I get, the more rewarding it seems to be for me. I don't think it's easy by any means either.... otherwise everyone would be able to do it. Isn't that why military snipers are an elite group?

  3. #28
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    I admire the hell out of you guys who can hit at 800+ yards.

    On my property there is one opportunity (well, two depending which way I am facing) where I can walk out the door and eventually line up an 880 yard shot (without crossing a road). But it is an unlucky coyote that walks into even a 500 yard shot from me. On the other hand - prone is tough. The weeds/goldenrod/tufts and very often snow would be well above my scope and bore if I lay down prone. So I practice frequently seated & either resting elbows on legs or using cross-sticks.

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    My typical whitetail deer shot is 10 to 120 yards, averaging under 50 yards. ;-) They just seem to avoid the open spaces during daylight hereabouts.

    Here is a "real" shot lane taken from a stump I was sitting on. Just about center is a yellow reflection from the bolster of a knife that I placed in the foot-square window where I lined up a 60 yard shot on a whitetail buck. I seldom see a whole deer all at once during deer season.

    Attachment 4843

    The .260 Rem is still ideal even in "tighter" situations. As an all-purpose varmint to medium/300# game it is right there.

    My current deer "stand" is a bench under a hemlock with dead branches around it to break my outline and give some cover, and I have three lanes I watch that would give 100 to 150 yard shots. This past year I had an eight-point come in from behind over my right shoulder and I had to twist and put one in his chest as he stopped and stretched his head out to look around a tree and "made" me (I think he saw the barrel moving when I turned). All I saw was brown in the scope . . . from 12 yards.

    Moral: practice the long shots but be ready to take every available opportunity. When was the last time you practiced 100 yards standing offhand? Or 12 yards seated but facing the wrong way. ;-)
    Attachment 4844
    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik

  4. #29
    Basic Member SageRat Shooter's Avatar
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    I've never practiced a 100 yard standing offhand shot... LOL!! I practiced a 145 yard kneeling shot 2 years ago.... Drilled my 5 point bull Elk 1 shot right through the heart.... Does that count? LOL!!

  5. #30
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    Over the last 4+ years I've had to shoot accurately from such a large variety of situations with different distances and target sizes/combinations. Both utilizing Dialing and holdovers at times, that there isn't really much that intimidates me anymore.

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    Last edited by LoneWolf; 05-18-2018 at 03:05 PM.

  6. #31
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  7. #32
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    California, New Mexico, Ohio, North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Florida, and I'm hoping to add Texas to the list come December for the PRS Finale this year.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SageRat Shooter View Post
    I've never practiced a 100 yard standing offhand shot... LOL!! I practiced a 145 yard kneeling shot 2 years ago.... Drilled my 5 point bull Elk 1 shot right through the heart.... Does that count? LOL!!
    Kneeling is good. ;-)

    A wise man makes use of every rest or cover he can find.

    But, next will be "weak hand".

    I played paddy-cake with the wrong parts on my Ford 640 tractor and lost the end of the ring-finger on my right hand. It was successfully reattached (whew!) but made pistol and bow (traditional recurve) shooting a whole new experience for 18 months or so. Though when I shot PPC in the 1980's we did "weak hand" so I did OK that way.

    With a witness (who had just dropped the rifle down to me from off the back deck) I made a standing 150 yard running head-shot on a coyote (with one of my chickens in it's mouth) with a single-shot .223 Rem. Best shot I ever made. Diagonal across our "pasture".

    Not a shot I would take at a deer (or elk), but for a predator - practice pays.

    Attachment 4853
    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik

  9. #34
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    Weak hand is not an option for me unfortunately... I was born with Brachial nerve damage in my right arm/hand... I have no dexterity in that hand. I can open and close the hand, but can't function the fingers individually... I have very little feeling in the hand either... I can tell real hot or real cold, but in between that I can't tell what it is... It hasn't slowed me down too much in my life, but there are a few things it did... Shooting from the weak side is one of them.

  10. #35
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    If you learned to ride a bike in California, and moved to New York, could you still ride the same bike just as well?
    If you can hit groundhogs in WV, could you hit prairie dogs in WY same way with the same gun?
    If you could break 100 straight targets at 16 yds, will you be as good on ducks along the Mississippi flyway?
    How about if you watched lots of videos first?
    None of this conversation means anything, unless you've shot at the ducks.
    I could keep this thing going for another month with hunting stories, a few of which didn't have nice endings.
    Make up your mind that not all of the (Best of the west) end well either, but lets not talk about that.
    After 70 seasons, there are lots of stories, but they wouldn't mean anything.
    Nothing said about anything, means much of anything, until we ourselves have shot at the ducks.

    I cant post pics, but i can email pics from my laptop.
    If say Stumpy can post pics here, that have been emailed, ill send some along. I just need an address.
    Then maybe we can discuss a get together where different methods can be actually tested.
    They say pics don't lie, and will show that we can in fact get from 400 to 3400 from a nice lawn.
    Also i could take you to some other places, where we might be lucky enough to find rocks with paint on them, and you could lay on some neat stuff while you shoot at them. Or choose not to.
    We can compare a few cartridges also. lol
    When the shooting is over, we can have a nice discussion about shooting long range in a hunting environment over food and beverages.
    These kind of conversations are only good for starting arguments, and that's the best way to settle them.

    Binghamton NY would be an easy 4 hr drive.
    One way airfare from Orlando for example to one of 3 airports within 3 hours is about 60 bucks.
    Free room and board, but bring your own beer, as i don't drink beer.
    Pretty much guaranteed to see elk, and maybe thru the windows.

  11. #36
    Basic Member eddiesindian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robinhood View Post
    this time of year in these parts mirage and wind is a killer. Flags and back that power back to 16X or play with parallax to focus in front of the target to help read the mirage. depending on the light sometimes it helps me.
    Plus 1

  12. #37
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    So I got back out to the canyon on Saturday and took a few different bags both front and rear this time. Decided to start at 440 yards this time, but still shot out of the back of the truck bed (forgot the shovel). Set gongs up at 440 yards and 935 yards (didn't know it at the time). I trued my drop at 440 to start (and I mean dead center of the plate from 440 yards) and then moved back to 935. Took me about 14 rounds to get on plate from back there, but they were consecutive hits... hit the right side of the gong first and then made 1 click windage adjustment and hit the left side of the plate (looked like a set of eyes) shots were about 5.5 inches apart. (440= 2853 MV 935= 2832 MV) these were what my truing velocities came back as.

    We pretty much have that spot stretched to its limits, but when I go back again, I will have to see if i can find an angle that reaches 1000 yards, so I can try for my Milk jug challenge!!

    Just wanted to say thanks to you guys who gave me advise/encouragement to reach my goal. FWIW... had to take the bipod off and just shoots from my gorilla front bag and my normal Caldwell rabbit ear rear bag and managed to get the truck a bit more level this time. It was just my position that was the problem... Thanks LW!! I.... And I had virtually no wind this time... I had a .5 left to right wind plugged in to Strelok when I made the 2 hits... the first 14 rounds I had a 2 mph left to right plugged in. as soon as I made that windage correction.... BONG!!

  13. #38
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    Very good, what all this means is that you have the ability to do it.
    The only thing stopping you from doing it has been your setup.
    The 14 shots you missed, were only missed because you didn't have a good spotter using good optics to help you get you on.
    And you proved that by making hits once you finally did get on.
    My suggestion would be to just dial for the elevation, and hold for the wind based on where your last shot hit.
    At this point its important for you to hit the plate, and the least complicated you make it the better.

  14. #39
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    Solid buddy! Knew you could do it! I got out to a local match up in VA over the weekend and had a good time. The Long Range stage here only made it out to about 821yds, but shot well enough to walk away with 2nd place. Keep at it and above all else, have fun!!

  15. #40
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    Thanks Yobuck, but I did have a spotter and he had decent spotting scope. I just couldn't believe that I had a "no wind" situation, when I was setting up the target, I took wind readings ranging between 0-4 mph... I figured I'd split it and go with a 2 mph wind... It wound up being 1/2 mph wind... I like to dial for both, but I'm still new to all this... as my comfort level grows, I may start holding off for wind.

    LW,

    Thanks to your willingness to share some of your Kung Fu!! :-) You don't have to worry about me having fun... The smile on my face just keeps getting bigger every time I hear that "Bong!!"

  16. #41
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    Note on wind: This is how I do it for matches when shooting on the clock. Say wind is 5-8mph and my wind bracket for that shot is .3-.6mils for wind hold. I'll mil the horizontal across the target and let say it's .6mils across. I now know if I hold .3mils center I may miss off the edge of the target because my wind bracket is already .3mils wide. I'll hold .4mils on center target and even if the wind picks up or lets off I still have .1mils on either side of my bracket to keep the round on target.

    Hopefully that paragraph makes sense to you. If not I can further break it down.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneWolf View Post
    Note on wind: This is how I do it for matches when shooting on the clock. Say wind is 5-8mph and my wind bracket for that shot is .3-.6mils for wind hold. I'll mil the horizontal across the target and let say it's .6mils across. I now know if I hold .3mils center I may miss off the edge of the target because my wind bracket is already .3mils wide. I'll hold .4mils on center target and even if the wind picks up or lets off I still have .1mils on either side of my bracket to keep the round on target.

    Hopefully that paragraph makes sense to you. If not I can further break it down.
    Can we PM discuss this a little further? I work in MOA as apposed to Mils, but I don't fully understand bracketing the wind... I get the general basic idea of what it is, but I don't know how to apply it to my shooting. Is this where having a Kestrel Ballistic calculator would be of benefit?

  18. #43
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    A wind meter helps a lot. Having a wind laid out in your ballistic table with values for 5mph, 10mph, 15mph, etc. would be a good start. I like to figure out how much movement I'll see per each additional MPH of wind there is to make my bracket as accurate as possible. The more accurate your input wind factor is the better obviously. But if your guess is that the wind is 1-5 or 5-10mph and you had your chart showing the wind hold for the distance your shooting to you could easily figure it out. your wind bracket might be 3/4moa to 1-1/4moa for example. If the target is 2MOA across I'd hold 1MOA of wind estimating I should have 1/4moa of wiggle room on each side of my wind call.

  19. #44
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    yeah, ok.... That's kind of what I tried to do... with my example, I had a 0-4 mph wind when I used my wind meter at the target... So I figured if I went with a 2 MPH wind, then I'd be "right in the middle" of that wind... problem was my wind estimation I guess??? cuz I changed it to a "no wind" correction which gave me .7 MOA Left... when I hit the plate it was right side. When I changed my wind in my app to 1/2 mph wind it jumped up to .9 MOA left.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SageRat Shooter View Post
    yeah, ok.... That's kind of what I tried to do... with my example, I had a 0-4 mph wind when I used my wind meter at the target... So I figured if I went with a 2 MPH wind, then I'd be "right in the middle" of that wind... problem was my wind estimation I guess??? cuz I changed it to a "no wind" correction which gave me .7 MOA Left... when I hit the plate it was right side. When I changed my wind in my app to 1/2 mph wind it jumped up to .9 MOA left.
    I have a question SageRat, come hunting season and you have found that nice buck to shoot at, will he be allowing you to walk over and take a wind reading, then walk back and shoot at him?
    Sorry, but i just couldn't help myself. lol
    Look, so long as you want to enjoy yourself shooting at those targets, you can do it anyway you like and get away with it.
    The only one needing to be happy is you.
    But if your plan is to utilize your shooting skill for hunting, your gonna quickly find the rules aren't always the same, even hour by hour.
    Spotter, I still question your spotter, other things also, but lets stick with the most important things first.
    Ask yourself this question and then think on it, when those bombers flew those missions over Germany, who flew the plane while the bombs were being dropped? He became the most important part of the entire mission, but who got all the credit? lol
    If your spotter isn't in a position that allows him to follow the trace of the bullets to the target, he isn't helping you.
    And if he is, and has the proper optics, then you need a different spotter.
    You spot, and let him shoot so you can see what im talking about. Setup about 10' behind the shooter, and maybe slightly off to one side.
    Put the target in the bottom half of your spotting scope, and tell the shooter when your ready, or vice versa, but be ready.

  21. #46
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    YB,

    My father is my spotter... He's taught me everything I know up to this point, and he's been doing this longer than you've even been alive. I'll take his wisdom and experience over yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    to put it as nicely as possible... I don't know why you even comment on my threads... All I hear is Charlie Brown's teacher

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SageRat Shooter View Post
    YB,

    My father is my spotter... He's taught me everything I know up to this point, and he's been doing this longer than you've even been alive. I'll take his wisdom and experience over yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    to put it as nicely as possible... I don't know why you even comment on my threads... All I hear is Charlie Brown's teacher
    Sorry ive ruffled your feathers, only trying to offer some insight based on my own 50 years of l/r hunting.
    But rest assured it wont happen again.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SageRat Shooter View Post
    It is an 8 twist... I spent 2 years researching which way I wanted to go... 6.5 Creedmoor or .260 Remington.... I was always leaning more towards the .260 because of 260 Rips on youtube... First time I saw him hit a rabbit at 1000 yards had me going..... "You have got to be kidding me!!"

    I just want to be able to do that too....
    When I was trying to make up my mind, 6.5 Creed or .260 Rem. I recalled a comment in a write up on the 6.5 Creed, 6.5X47L, and .260 Rem. The writer called it close but said that in his opinion the 6.5 Creedmoor was ".260 done right". I went with the creed because of the 30 degree shoulder angle. I don't trim cases anymore.

    As for LR capabilities? I just posted my experience with it while shooting at a steel buffalo 1025 meters down range and regularly hitting the 16" round aim plate attached to it in another thread. Is the Creedmoor superior? Can't say. Don't own the others but it's doing right by me.

  24. #49
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    Don't trim cases much with my .260 Rem. Same neck angle as the .308 WIN and .243 WIN (neither notorious for case/neck stretch), and it has a bit more volume than the 6.5 Creedmoor (nice of you want to use the 156 to 160 grain bullets seated deep).

    The .260 Rem is the 6.5 x 55mm done right. ;-)
    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Last words of Gen. Sedgwik

  25. #50
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    Sagerat
    Keep doing what your doing. Keep an open mind on getting advice on how to call wind. You,ll eventually create your own theory and I'm sure It will work for you. From using anemometer s, to dialing magnification to help see mirage to apps. You,ll get it. Imo, you'll probably simplify
    the process and not over think it. I live in the southwestern part of Texas, from wide open to mountainess canons with blowing winds that seem to never stop.
    The more you practice while shooting under wind conditions the closer you'll be. Imho. ...its not an exact science. Too many variables.

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