Reply With QuoteI would call the Smith who did the work, that sucks. I would get a 12fv action out of the classifieds.
So I have this project that has been in the works for a long time. I wanted to build a left hand target 308. I bought a used complete basic sporter model 10 for a good deal off gunbroker. I tore it down sent the action off and had it timed and trued. I ordered a x-caliber 26 inch, 1in bull in 308, 1-10 twist, 5R. I also ordered a choate ultimate varmint stock and had CDI machine it for their DBM.
It took about 6-7 months to get the barrel from x-caliber, it finally came in last week. So just yesterday I started putting it all together. I get the barrel on and head spaced, scope base on, slap a coat of paint on it and then put it in the stock.
After torquing the action screws and looking it over, I noticed the barrel is not in the stock evenly. There is a large gap on the left, and hardly and gap on the right. At first I thought the stock was warped. But looking down the barrel from the action, down the scope base, you can see the barrel pointing to the right.
I take the action back out of the stock, put a straight edge on the side of the receiver and find the same. Large gap on the left, barely any gap on the right. I loosen the barrel nut and turn the barrel 90 degrees, still the same, turn it another 90 degrees, still the same. So I know it can't be the barrel as it would change depending on how it is rotated. I pull the barrel and check it anyways. Straight as can be. I can screw the barrel back in and as I start tightening the nut, the barrel starts pulling right. I took my calipers and measure about 1/4in down on the left and right side of the receiver between the threads and the outside. There is about 3-4 thousandths difference between the left and right.
So it appears the threads in the receiver are drilled crooked. I now have a very expensive paperweight. Is there anything at all that can be done, or is buying another action/rifle my only option?
I would call the Smith who did the work, that sucks. I would get a 12fv action out of the classifieds.
So, adjust the scope in the mounts to the right and shoot it. Better than adding it to the scrap bin. Could be that the action threads were cut wrong from the factory? ( " I bought a used complete basic sporter model 10 for a "good deal" off gunbroker".) Maybe that's why??
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
*IF* one of the action screw holes is truly off it's just a tapped hole in some metal. I don't see why you can't drill it out a tad and re-thread it to the next size...or maybe even heli-coil it.
Talk to your smith and see what he says.....
Just to make sure I understood correctly... You're talking about the Receiver Ring threads where the barrel screws into ? If that's the case, that's pretty shitty and would assume the GS doing the T&T job would of noticed and called you before proceeding with the job.
For this reason I suggest indicating the bolt raceway and the centerline of the action if possible to cut/chase tenon threads
There is only one shop I know of that is doing a True Timing and True job (the bolt body and receiver work is somewhat proprietary in how it is done)
What tools did you use to install the barrel?
Either the receiver is bent(big bummer) or the problem is as you describe. I would think who ever timed and trued would have caught that error. I’ve heard that the receiver bbl threads can often be fixed. Sorry for the bad luck.
Yes. I am talking about the receiver threads where the barrel threads into and NOT the action screws.Originally Posted by Zero333
To answer another question, I have the wheeler action wrench and barrel nut wrench.
See #3 again. Another option? If there's enough meat, recut the threads to a "large shank"? If it was mine, I'd be looking at using it with the scope mount aligned so it would site.
Pick up a two piece mount where the back piece is adjustable. Lots of Savage rigs came with scope mount screws not drilled straight. The two piece mount solved lots of those issues.
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
Just a thought, did you replace the recoil lug? If the smith had the lug he would have already checked it and you can forget the rest of this post. If not check it for uniform thickness. I found a factory one that was .009 off diagonally that tilted the barrel up & over as the nut was torqued. It was very pronounced and you could see it both ways with the naked eye. Ground lug "cured" it. Loose barrel to action thread fit will make it worse.
My .02,
Randy
The lug is a thicker surface ground lug, so it is nice a flat.
Here is a picture I took today showing it in the stock. I was going to take a picture of the straight edge on each side, but I could not hold it, the action, and the camera all at the same time.
Who did your action work?
Oh dang. Inquiring minds want to know who did the GS work.
As much as a bummer as it is, I would be buying another action and starting over. I’m sorry, that’s terrible.
Check the receiver, where it fits up to recoil lug, threads may be O.K., receiver face may not be true. Also check nut & recoil lug, they could be crooked. Also look for burrs & high spots. Might not be the problem, but if the right side of tang is pushing against the stock, it will cause barrel to point right.
The gaps on the sides of the action and the tang all appear to be even. The action appears to be perfectly centered in the stock, just the barrel goes off to the side.
The front face of the receiver was trued up as you can clearly see it was machined. The recoil lug measures a perfect .238 at every spot I measured it. The nut does not appear to have been touched my the smith.
Short round hit on some good points. Looks like you have those covered. I am not you but what I would try next, just to eliminate a couple of issues would be to take a feeler gauge with the action tightened into the stock, Try and slide a .001 all around the action. If you find a spot that it slides in find out why. If you need to remove the barrel and try again. I have v-blocks. I would put the barrel in the block and have the muzzle thrust against an immovable object to maintain consistency. If you have a bearing to put into the muzzle that is perfect. Then I would rotate and check T.I.R. on the rear of the action. If you see > .005, you have an issue at the barrel, action junction. >.010 you definitely have an issue. If it is <.004 you are as good as a savage will get.
Another thought...
If you lay the action and barrel back in the stock without tightening the nut and only the action screws, does the barrel still point to the right? Or does it lay parallel with the stock? If it lays parallel, being the lug is good, then maybe the action face is not trued perpendicular to the threads ?? For checking face to thread fit I once made a fixture from the threads of an old barrel with a machined washer attached to it with that purpose in mind. I did find a couple of actions where action face was off about .002 or .003 from side to side (or top to bottom can't remember). If you were to screw the nut and barrel on without the lug with prussion blue (or a sharpie) on the action face (or nut) and slowly turn the nut down until it starts making contact you could see where the high spots/edge are. If just a light "hand" torque shows contact all around then the action is probably close to square. But if it contacts primarily one side and begins to shift the barrel off to the side then most likely you have found the problem.
Good luck,
Randy
I've pondered this for a couple of days and I tend to agree with the bent receiver theory. Even a novice lathe-tender like myself would have to try really hard to mess one up that bad. Unless the machine that the smith did the action work on was a total disaster in terms of axial alignment, it's near impossible NOT to face an action true. If the smith went after the receiver threads, the same would be true. I could understand cutting them eccentric without a good setup but the barrel would still most likely thread in straight in the loose threads.
I could be mistaken but my understanding is the factory threads them with a piloted tap. It would be difficult to get too far out with that as well. Maybe not the most precise way to go, but it has to be darned close.
I'm going with someone bent the receiver, most likely during barrel removal.
Please let us know how it turns out. Bummed about this for you. I know what it's like to wait and then find out it isn't going to work.
A few things to add. When I removed the barrel, I used the wheeler action wrench and barrel nut wrench. The factory nut actually came loose pretty easy. It was nowhere near enough torque to bend something.
I suppose the receiver face could be machined off, however if it is, the smith did it, as you can clearly see the face has been machined. The threads have not been touched that I can see.
OK, stupid thought here.
The 110 30-06 I just picked up also had an issue with the barrel not centered in the channel.
Problem turned out to be a high spot in the stock hitting the barrel nut and forcing the action and barrel right when the action screws were tightened.
Spotted in in with some Prussian Blue, took down the high spots and problem is gone. Shoots better as well since tightening the action on the high spot was putting stress on the receiver and barrel.
May be worth looking at if you have not already.
A lot of good points and advice on this thread. Savage brothers are always here to help one another.
Another thought came to mind. That after market lug should have a dowel or possibly a screw that matches with the notch in the reciever, if it fits just a little loose then the lug may have turned with the nut while tightening the nut. It is possible that the lug may be contacting the bottom of the lug recess in the stock on the "left" corner. This may cause the action to tilt to the right as Michigun mentioned above. Don't ask me why but it happened to me with a bedded Rem once and I learned the lug must be "squared up".
Even some of the Savage "keyed" lugs fit loose and turn a little sometimes. Doesn't bother much in a non-bedded stock but definitely does if they are bedded close under the lug.
Next thought; If the receiver is truly twisted it can be somewhat or mostly corrected with the proper clamping and measuring tools. I saw a picture once of a twisted "wreck" (can't remember where maybe on this sight). Pretty sure they repaired it. The receiver behind the locking lugs do not have much torsional strength and twist very easy when pressure is applied. If even a slight amount of twist was incurred at barrel removal, the resulting offset would be barrel to the right as in your case.
Agreeing with others it is very possible the "Gun broker" buy had been altered, especially if the nut came loose real easy as you say.
Thats my .03 for today,
Randy
+1 on mnbogboy2 suggestion on the lug. I have seen that issue myself working on Savages especially ones that have been bedded. It doesn’t take much for the lug to be off enough to push the barrel over. I would suggest removing the nut and lug and just screw the barrel in and mount in the stock to see if the issue still exists. At least then you could rule a lug issue out.
^^I take the action back out of the stock, put a straight edge on the side of the receiver and find the same. Large gap on the left, barely any gap on the right.
The stock/lug has been ruled out as a possible issue per the above, and the lug has been miked.
The lug does have the alignment pin and it fits very snug in the receiver recess. I do not have to force it in, but there is no play.
The barrel channel in the stock is very generous and the lug does not appear to be able to bottom out in the stock either.
I would want a new action. Just for the thrill if it, file the old recoil lug to taper it. Make a wedge so the barrel points straight. I bet it would shoot Minute.of.racoon. Brass might roll like a banana after you fire it though LOL. If you have more time than money, try it. Sporter take off barrel truck gun, not $$$$ target gun.
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