American Rifle Company Releases the Nucleus! Another Savage Pre-fit Compatible Custom!

[J.Baker]

Three days shy of being 1-year to the day I FINALLY got around to getting a stock ordered for the Nucleus action I ordered this time last year. Ended up going with a Grayboe Renegade after learning Red Hawk Rifles offers them in left-hand.

[J.Baker]

Finally looking like something more than a shiny tomato stake on my workbench.




Very impressed with the Grayboe stock, and for the money I think you'd be hard pressed to find something better in a synthetic at this price. Only gripe is that there was a small spot just behind the rear tang where the paint is chipped, but that's an easy touch-up and I plan on doing some kind of camo pattern on this come spring. Will likely be sending it out to have an adjustable cheek piece installed, but have to wait and see where the scope height comes in at to see if it's needed or not.

The Grayboe M5 bottom metal (made by Mesa) is a perfect fit and I like the butterfly release lever over a more conventional centered lever that sticks down a lot further.

Barrel channel was pretty much a perfect fit other than right up by the nut, but that's to be expected since it's inlet for a shouldered barrel. Can't seat my Magpul mags with the bolt closed, and the bolt drags the mag lips pretty good when fully locked in so I'm going to have to round up some shims for the bottom metal. I'm figuring 10-15 thousandths should do the trick.

Scope will be here Wednesday, but you'll have to wait to find out what it is.

[Robinhood]

Like all of your other rifles the bolt is on the other side. Athlon Cronus BTR?

[J.Baker]

Athlon Cronus BTR?

Nope, I'm not jumping on the Athlon bandwagon. I'll give them another 5-6 years for the fad to wear off and then see where they are then. I have a feeling the fickle internet fanboy's will likely end up turning on them just like they did Vortex in recent years. After all, the products are likely made by the same people in the same Asian factory and once Athlon starts moving the volume of product that Vortex does you'll start seeing complaints about them failing more and more often as well. Economy of scale and all that good stuff.

Hopefully I'll be proven wrong, but I've watched this scenario play out numerous times now.

[Robinhood]

Japanese LOW, same manufacturer as the Bushnell tactical scopes.

[sharpshooter]

I think I have some shims made just for that purpose laying around here somewhere.......or you could grind on your magazines..lol.

[J.Baker]

I think I have some shims made just for that purpose laying around here somewhere.......or you could grind on your magazines..lol.

I have some 1/4" washers that ware 0.046" thick which work, but they put the bottom metal a bit proud. Bolt picks up a round from the mag with them, but need something about half that thickness. Figurd if nothing else I'd bring the washers out and have you shave them down with the surface grinder.

[J.Baker]

Guess it's time to update this train wreck...

Got everything together and loaded up some initial development loads at 39.0, 39.5 and 40.0gr of IMR-4350 with Berger 105 Hybrids. Hit the range and got the scope bore sighted then sat down to zero it in. First round - click. Retry - click. Retry again - click. WTH? Grab another round - click. Retry - bang. Long story short, of the ten rounds I tried to fire only three went off and each of them needed multiple strikes. Firing pin strikes were notably light.

Seems I'm not the only one having this issue with the Nucleus action as there's a few threads of guys *****ing about it over on the SH forum. First suggested fix was to upgrade from the original 16# firing pin spring to a 19# spring, which is the spring that was being used in all the John Hancock rifles built on the Nucleus action. That still didn't resolve the issue for everyone so next they went to a 22# spring and it made thing better for a few more folks but still not 100%. Now they're up to a 25# spring, which is what they ended up sending me.

Interestingly enough, in messing around with mine while waiting for the new spring I did find part of the problem - though I still can't explain how it makes a difference.

Initial firing pin travel measurements off the back of the bolt shroud with the 16# spring were as follows:

Cocked (bolt up) = 0.128"
Cocked (bolt down) = 0.118" (decocking 0.010")
Decocked (fired) = 0.312"
Firing Pin Travel = 0.194" (way too short)

The discussion over at SH brought up the 0.035" gap between the bolt sleeve and bolt shroud and that if you screw the shroud all the way on until it stops against the bolt sleeve it stops about 1/4 turn short of being lined up where it needs to be. So, to get it lined up one has to unscrew it 3/4 turn resulting in that gap. Reassembling the bolt in that fashion - unscrewing the shroud 3/4 turn with the FP spring still compressed with the washer and screw, I would repeatedly get the numbers above.

Thens Is gots to thinkins (said in my best Curly Dan voice)...

With the shroud screwed all the way on and bottomed out on the bolt sleeve the one cocking lug and ramp are maybe just 15-20 thousands past lining up. What if rather than backing the shroud off the full 3/4 turn I just back it off enough to align the lug and ramp? So I tried that and naturally the shroud was about 270-degrees out of the orientation it needed to be in. I released the FP spring tension and then muscled the shroud around to it's proper orientation and took measurements again.

Cocked (bolt up) = 0.085"
Cocked (bolt down) = 0.075" (decocking 0.010")
Decocked (fired) = 0.295"
Firing Pin Travel = 0.220" (much better!)

So where did that 0.026" of extra firing pin travel magically come from? Assembling the bolt both ways the gap between the shroud and bolt sleeve is consistent at 0.035" so everything is in the same place, so explain that difference. I can't!

Took the rifle back to the range and of my 45 remaining rounds I had loaded up all of them fired on the first strike except two. Didn't get any pressure signs with any of the loads - not even from the 20 rounds loaded with 40.0 grains of powder, so I suspect I may have been getting cold fires with this rather light FP spring. My chrono is on the fritz so I have no velocity numbers to verify.

Naturally a 36% increase in spring rate in going to a 25# spring also means there will be a significant increase in bolt lift as well, and the light bolt lift with a 60-degree throw was the key selling points of the Nucleus action for myself and many others. Not real happy that I have $900 in an action that has a bolt lift almost as heavy as a factory Savage and far heavier than a T&T'd Savage that I could have been into for 1/3 to 1/2 the price.

Just to note, with the new 25# spring now in place the measurements are pretty much identical (+/- 0.001") to the second set above.

I may spend the $10 and order the 19# spring to lighten the bolt lift and hopefully still have 100% reliable ignition.

Weather has turned cold and nasty again so not sure when I'll get out to shoot it with the new spring. Loaded up another 50 rounds - 10 each at 38.0, 38.2, 38.4, 38.6 and 38.8 grains just to be on the safe side in case I was getting cold fires before.



On another note...

I've also come to the conclusion that all the people who rant and rave about how great the Greyboe stocks are wouldn't know a good synthetic stock if someone shoved one up their keister. Don't get me wrong, the Renegade I got isn't horrible, it just has a lot of flex in the forearm since there's no fabric shell or inner aluminum skeleton to give it any stiffness. When I first dropped the barreled action into the stock the barrel was free-floated. I left it on the workbench over night resting on a bipod and the next morning it was no longer floating. Sanded the barrel channel out a good bit and tried again - and again it sagged over night to the point it was touching again. Had to sand it out two more times before it finally stayed free-floated. Considering I only paid $400 for the stock and M5 bottom metal I can't complain too much. Cheapest M5 hardware is $160 so I'm only into the stock for $240. It's plenty suitable for a varmint gun, but definitely not something I would consider for a competition rifle.

I can also torque on the grip from the shooting position and cause enough flex to move the crosshair about 3.5-4 inches at 100 yards when on the bipod. Not good!

[psharon97]

Guess it's time to update this train wreck...

Got everything together and loaded up some initial development loads at 39.0, 39.5 and 40.0gr of IMR-4350 with Berger 105 Hybrids. Hit the range and got the scope bore sighted then sat down to zero it in. First round - click. Retry - click. Retry again - click. WTH? Grab another round - click. Retry - bang. Long story short, of the ten rounds I tried to fire only three went off and each of them needed multiple strikes. Firing pin strikes were notably light.

Seems I'm not the only one having this issue with the Nucleus action as there's a few threads of guys *****ing about it over on the SH forum. First suggested fix was to upgrade from the original 16# firing pin spring to a 19# spring, which is the spring that was being used in all the John Hancock rifles built on the Nucleus action. That still didn't resolve the issue for everyone so next they went to a 22# spring and it made thing better for a few more folks but still not 100%. Now they're up to a 25# spring, which is what they ended up sending me.

Interestingly enough, in messing around with mine while waiting for the new spring I did find part of the problem - though I still can't explain how it makes a difference.

Initial firing pin travel measurements off the back of the bolt shroud with the 16# spring were as follows:

Cocked (bolt up) = 0.128"
Cocked (bolt down) = 0.118" (decocking 0.010")
Decocked (fired) = 0.312"
Firing Pin Travel = 0.194" (way too short)

The discussion over at SH brought up the 0.035" gap between the bolt sleeve and bolt shroud and that if you screw the shroud all the way on until it stops against the bolt sleeve it stops about 1/4 turn short of being lined up where it needs to be. So, to get it lined up one has to unscrew it 3/4 turn resulting in that gap. Reassembling the bolt in that fashion - unscrewing the shroud 3/4 turn with the FP spring still compressed with the washer and screw, I would repeatedly get the numbers above.

Thens Is gots to thinkins (said in my best Curly Dan voice)...

With the shroud screwed all the way on and bottomed out on the bolt sleeve the one cocking lug and ramp are maybe just 15-20 thousands past lining up. What if rather than backing the shroud off the full 3/4 turn I just back it off enough to align the lug and ramp? So I tried that and naturally the shroud was about 270-degrees out of the orientation it needed to be in. I released the FP spring tension and then muscled the shroud around to it's proper orientation and took measurements again.

Cocked (bolt up) = 0.085"
Cocked (bolt down) = 0.075" (decocking 0.010")
Decocked (fired) = 0.295"
Firing Pin Travel = 0.220" (much better!)

So where did that 0.026" of extra firing pin travel magically come from? Assembling the bolt both ways the gap between the shroud and bolt sleeve is consistent at 0.035" so everything is in the same place, so explain that difference. I can't!

Took the rifle back to the range and of my 45 remaining rounds I had loaded up all of them fired on the first strike except two. Didn't get any pressure signs with any of the loads - not even from the 20 rounds loaded with 40.0 grains of powder, so I suspect I may have been getting cold fires with this rather light FP spring. My chrono is on the fritz so I have no velocity numbers to verify.

Naturally a 36% increase in spring rate in going to a 25# spring also means there will be a significant increase in bolt lift as well, and the light bolt lift with a 60-degree throw was the key selling points of the Nucleus action for myself and many others. Not real happy that I have $900 in an action that has a bolt lift almost as heavy as a factory Savage and far heavier than a T&T'd Savage that I could have been into for 1/3 to 1/2 the price.

Just to note, with the new 25# spring now in place the measurements are pretty much identical (+/- 0.001") to the second set above.

I may spend the $10 and order the 19# spring to lighten the bolt lift and hopefully still have 100% reliable ignition.

Weather has turned cold and nasty again so not sure when I'll get out to shoot it with the new spring. Loaded up another 50 rounds - 10 each at 38.0, 38.2, 38.4, 38.6 and 38.8 grains just to be on the safe side in case I was getting cold fires before.



On another note...

I've also come to the conclusion that all the people who rant and rave about how great the Greyboe stocks are wouldn't know a good synthetic stock if someone shoved one up their keister. Don't get me wrong, the Renegade I got isn't horrible, it just has a lot of flex in the forearm since there's no fabric shell or inner aluminum skeleton to give it any stiffness. When I first dropped the barreled action into the stock the barrel was free-floated. I left it on the workbench over night resting on a bipod and the next morning it was no longer floating. Sanded the barrel channel out a good bit and tried again - and again it sagged over night to the point it was touching again. Had to sand it out two more times before it finally stayed free-floated. Considering I only paid $400 for the stock and M5 bottom metal I can't complain too much. Cheapest M5 hardware is $160 so I'm only into the stock for $240. It's plenty suitable for a varmint gun, but definitely not something I would consider for a competition rifle.

I can also torque on the grip from the shooting position and cause enough flex to move the crosshair about 3.5-4 inches at 100 yards when on the bipod. Not good!

Very detailed write-up. I know you probably wouldn't like this, but have you contacted American Rifle Company to see what they can do?

[J.Baker]

Very detailed write-up. I know you probably wouldn't like this, but have you contacted American Rifle Company to see what they can do?

They sent me the replacement 25# spring, that's about it. His own posts in the thread over at SH are a pretty clear indication he doesn't want to admit he messed up putting such light springs in them. I just consider it a 'live and learn' lesson, don't volunteer and pay to be someone's beta tester for a new product in the future.

[celltech]

I just watched his video on the Nucleus and he seemed pretty sure of himself that the 15# spring would work, although there was some level of uncertainty there. To jump up to a 25# sure seems like pulling out a sledgehammer to get the job done. At least he can perhaps find a workable solution and get it fixed.

The flexy stock on the other hand.....ugghhh

[J.Baker]

I just watched his video on the Nucleus and he seemed pretty sure of himself that the 15# spring would work, although there was some level of uncertainty there. To jump up to a 25# sure seems like pulling out a sledgehammer to get the job done. At least he can perhaps find a workable solution and get it fixed.

The flexy stock on the other hand.....ugghhh

Yeah, I pointed out his own words in that video in one of my posts over on SH. He gambled, it didn't pay off - it happens.

[sharpshooter]

I can't believe he got that far without encountering any problems. A 15 lb. spring wouldn't even work for a rimfire, and it's at it's least for even supporting a detonated primer.

[yorketransport]

I’m surprised that the 19# spring didn’t fix the ignition issues. I had problems with CCI 250s and the 16# spring but the 19# has been 100% so far. The federal 215 primers worked 80% with the 16# and they’ve been 100% with the 19#.

The difference in bolt lift between the 16# and 19# springs wasn’t too bad, but a 25# spring on there would be an issue for me.

[sharpshooter]

A 19 lb spring would be on the edge for optimum ignition. Even though it will ignite, it will not expel all the energy from the primer. It results in a "cold fire", causing a change in the pressure wave, harmonics and a dip in velocity. When the ignition is at this stage "riding the fence", you may get a few shots with optimum fire, and some with a cold fire. The results are flyers.

[yorketransport]

A 19 lb spring would be on the edge for optimum ignition. Even though it will ignite, it will not expel all the energy from the primer. It results in a "cold fire", causing a change in the pressure wave, harmonics and a dip in velocity. When the ignition is at this stage "riding the fence", you may get a few shots with optimum fire, and some with a cold fire. The results are flyers.

I haven’t seen that yet, but now I’ll try and watch for it. I have 3 separate barrels for my Nucleus action and all 3 are in chamberings with 100+ gr case capacities. So far the ES numbers have been 15 or less with all 3, but that’s only for 50-75 shots through each barrel.

[sharpshooter]

15 or less is good. Evidently you're on the right side of the fence.

[Txhillbilly]

I know there have been some guy's that have problems with their Nucleus action's,but mine hasn't had a single issue. It is just as it came out of the box,minus cleaning off the oil off the outside of the action. I've fired around 400 rounds out of it so far,and it has always fired each time the trigger was pulled.
My action is a SA / LH bolt,and one of the first ones produced - serial#0012. There are several other guy's with a Nucleus actin that haven't had any issues also,that just tells me that something was machined wrong or out of spec in the bolt area of the action.

[LoneWolf]

Hey Jim, What trigger did you go with on this action?

[Txhillbilly]

Hey Jim,Any updates with your Nucleus?
I went shooting yesterday,and put another 50 rounds out of mine. I still haven't had a single issue with it,and it still has the 16# spring in it.

[J.Baker]

Hey Jim, What trigger did you go with on this action?

Trigger Tech Special

Hey Jim,Any updates with your Nucleus?
I went shooting yesterday,and put another 50 rounds out of mine. I still haven't had a single issue with it,and it still has the 16# spring in it.

I haven't had it out to shoot it since I got the heavier FP spring in due to a new job that's keeping me plenty busy.

[Robinhood]

I haven't had it out to shoot it since I got the heavier FP spring in due to a new job that's keeping me plenty busy.

Do tell....

[J.Baker]

Not much to tell - this site's dying off so I picked up a job working in a factory. Gotta pay the bills somehow.

[J.Baker]

Finally been doing some shooting with the Nucleus action. Still playing around with loads, but I'm starting to get it dialed in. Working with IMR-4350, 105gr Berger Hybrids, Lapua brass and CCI 450 primers. So far it seems to like 39.0gr for the charge weight. No clue what the velocity is at this point as the brain box for my CED chrony took a crap. Shot at 100 yards off bench with a bipod and rear bag.




Bolt lift with the 25# firing pin spring is heavier than I would like, but not as bad as a factory Savage. It is heavier than a trued and timed Savage action though.

[Txhillbilly]

Nice to see you have it firing now,and the load developing looks promising. Mine still hasn't missed a beat with the 16# spring in it,so I'll just keep it that way unless I start having issues.