55 gr Dog Town Bullets

[PaddyD]

I just got a super deal on a 500 ct box of Dog Town bullets for my Mod 70 HV in .223Rem. ( I know . It's not a Savage, but it is all I have in this caliber and a good rifle. Well maybe a super deal if they shoot well. Anyone have good/bad luck with these? Any recommendations for a load?

[darkker]

I've shot several thousand between my 204 and a 223. I can only think of a few things to be aware of, not really problems, just keep in mind.

1) The hollow points can tend to grab the feed ramp, if you have funny angles or a less than ideal mag spring pressure. Typically working the bolt with feeling solves the issue. Working the bolt slowly can occasionally cause a hang-up.

2) They are a very light jacketed bullet. So RPM is limited. Your particular barrels smoothness can change the limit somewhat dramatically, but in general. ~ 240-260,000 RPM is the limit for them. From a 223 you should have no issues unless running a very tight twist. If want to know what your RPM is, here is the calculation:

MV * 720 / Twist = RPM


As far as a load, powders aren't a holy un-changing thing when it comes to burning rates. Start at the beginning and work up to an accurate load.

[PaddyD]

I just got home from the range . I think you are right about not pushing these bullets too fast, but it could just be the rifle likes them on the slower end. My Mod. 70 HV is a 1/9 twist as far as I can tell using a cleaning rod and a ruler. I loaded and shot 30 rounds 10 each at 23.0, 24.0 and 25.0 gn of H335. the 23 gr loads shot a 5 rd 100 yd group at .318" and that is with a shaky old man behind the rifle in a Michigan snow storm freezing my tail off. The groups progressively got larger as the charge increased. I think I can live with Dog Towns. .318 is plenty good for what I'll be doing with them especially at the price I got them for.

[darkker]

Pretty stout loads, but would need to know what the velocities were.
If you look at the current Hodgy data the charge range is rather limited, and only with 1 bullet are they that high. The important thing to note is not that one bullet has "higher" charges, but the unit of measurement. Notice that the velocity is about 200 fps faster? That doesn't come from magic, it comes from pressure.
CUP data is almost always higher than honest PSI data, because of the limitations and inaccuracy of Copper Crushers; but it looks sexy and sells more powder.

Crushers are well known in the ballistics world to be inappropriate when testing over about 45,000 PSI, SAAMI reference powder showed "discrepencies" to the tune of 20,000+ psi!! That is why the world moved to Piezo transducers or strain gauges for "modern" high pressure testing.

Glad you found something you like!

[PaddyD]

This was taken from the Nosler loading data page here. I know primers aren't the end all in pressure signs, but they all looked normal after firing and no issues opening the bolt either. This data reflects the use of the flat base HP Varmagedon, which I have been told is what the Dog Town bullets are. I may be wrong though.

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/223-remington/

[snowgetter1]

I had some 55gr 6mm I loaded in a 243. They would vaporize in a trail of smoke from the barrel until about 70yards. They never made it to the target. So don't push them to fast.

[PaddyD]

I had some 55gr 6mm I loaded in a 243. They would vaporize in a trail of smoke from the barrel until about 70yards. They never made it to the target. So don't push them to fast.

This is a .223 Rem.. Not a .243 Win. It would blow up before it could possibly push these bullets that fast..

[darkker]

This was taken from the Nosler loading data page here. I know primers aren't the end all in pressure signs, but they all looked normal after firing and no issues opening the bolt either. This data reflects the use of the flat base HP Varmagedon, which I have been told is what the Dog Town bullets are. I may be wrong though.

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/223-remington/

Unfortunately primers aren't reliable reporters at all. If you look at my recent post of pressure testing in the Creedmoor I have pictures of the same load shot with small rifle primers and large. All the pressures were recorded with a strain gauge pressure system, you'll see the rifle was running essentially identical pressures; but the primers were radically different. Even if you stick with all Idendical, when we pressure tested in the 308 a few years ago, the primers don't show "signs" until well beyond 70,000 psi. I'm not saying they are worthless, but don't use them for what they are not.

The point I after with the data(which I wasn't concise with), was that powder isn't a fixed thing. Looking at the referenced Nosler data against the online Hodgy data, even though the charges vary substantially, the velocities are very similar. Powder lots do vary by quite a large margin at times. Neither source will tell you what the lot numbers tested were, when the data was tested. Without being able to measure pressures accurately, the better route to go(if you want to stay within SAAMI pressure limits) is to focus on the chrono. If you start low and work up, then how fast you are relative to book speeds, at a given charge weight; will give you an idea of how your burning rate compares to what was tested. Mass produced rifles, even with magical aftermarket barrels, have looser tollerances than SAAMI min spec test fixtures, so will always be slightly slower at the same pressure. If you exceed book velocity, you exceeded book pressure.

The last I knew, yes, the Dogtowns were being produced by Nosler. They have had different mfgrs over time, but believe them to currently be from Nosler.

[PaddyD]

Unfortunately primers aren't reliable reporters at all. If you look at my recent post of pressure testing in the Creedmoor I have pictures of the same load shot with small rifle primers and large. All the pressures were recorded with a strain gauge pressure system, you'll see the rifle was running essentially identical pressures; but the primers were radically different. Even if you stick with all Idendical, when we pressure tested in the 308 a few years ago, the primers don't show "signs" until well beyond 70,000 psi. I'm not saying they are worthless, but don't use them for what they are not.

The point I after with the data(which I wasn't concise with), was that powder isn't a fixed thing. Looking at the referenced Nosler data against the online Hodgy data, even though the charges vary substantially, the velocities are very similar. Powder lots do vary by quite a large margin at times. Neither source will tell you what the lot numbers tested were, when the data was tested. Without being able to measure pressures accurately, the better route to go(if you want to stay within SAAMI pressure limits) is to focus on the chrono. If you start low and work up, then how fast you are relative to book speeds, at a given charge weight; will give you an idea of how your burning rate compares to what was tested. Mass produced rifles, even with magical aftermarket barrels, have looser tollerances than SAAMI min spec test fixtures, so will always be slightly slower at the same pressure. If you exceed book velocity, you exceeded book pressure.

The last I knew, yes, the Dogtowns were being produced by Nosler. They have had different mfgrs over time, but believe them to currently be from Nosler.

What you say makes perfect sense to me. Maybe I should think about investing in a chronograph. Until then I guess I'll have to limit myself to the lower end of the published charge tables. After all, with this last loading that was where it was most accurate anyway and that is all I look for. Accuracy and not top speed. Actually, I don't think I have ever loaded anything at the top of the scale and had it be the most accurate load. Most were best somewhere in the middle.

[darkker]

Actually, I don't think I have ever loaded anything at the top of the scale and had it be the most accurate load. Most were best somewhere in the middle.

Now that I'm a little older and wiser, I rarely run "hot" loads. Personally I find there are usually a few accurate nodes within the data for any given combo. I think a decent chrono is key, but if you use it frequently, can enlighten lots of bad info for you.

Some times I get taken as a bit "preach-y" about pressures. My goal isn't to sound like "don't shoot high pressure, or you will cause the decline of western civilization", just trying to dispel old voodoo's and bad info. If someone wants to shoot hot loads, and understands that they are doing so, that's a whole different game.

If you don't like driving an Audi, that's fine. If you don't drive one because of the 60 minutes BS about "unintended acceleration", we need to get some truth spread.