Why choose 308?

[Bigeclipse]

As much as I hate to say it Bigeclipse I think you are misinformed on 6.5 Creedmoor. There are now 5-6 ammo manufacturer's that I know of. Federal started producing both 6.5 Creedmoor and 6 Creedmoor. Of the cartridges mentioned I'd pick the 6.5. Better ballistics than both the 308 and 7-08 with 120-140gr pills. Energy down range is nearly equal to or better than the others in most cases due to retained velocity. If the OP reloads then there are a slew of highly effective projectiles to choose from. In all honesty the 6.5 Creedmoor is becoming to the US the 6.5x55 is in Europe. It's hard to beat without going to a magnum cartridge inside of 800yds.

That being said I'm a 6.5x47 guy. It inherently more consistent than the Creedmoor, but gives up a hair of velocity. The only thing the 7-08 and 308 offer over the 6.5 is barrel life. That's not to say they are dead in the water and un-effective. That's just saying Ballistics don't lie. The 6.5 can do everything the other midsize cartridges do, but easier on the shooter. Better ballistics make up for a larger degree of error in wind and distance calculation, less recoil for easier shot spotting/follow-up (if needed), and down range energy between the options given is negligible at best. Barrel life for the average guy is going to be 3k-4k rounds or more dependent on their accuracy requirements.

So, for me based on the options the choice would be easy!

6.5 Creed Factory Ammo choices:
Prime
Hornady
Federal
Copper Creek
Norma
and probably a couple others I can't think of off the top of my head.

Brass Options:
Hornady
Lapua
Peterson
Alpha
Norma
Starline
and a couple others I can't think of

Bullets: Try naming them all! Options galore!

The Creedmoor is here to stay gentlemen whether you like it or not... There's also a ton of rifles being factory chambered for it and many Gunsmiths are reporting that they chamber more barrels in 6.5 Creedmoor than the next 3 combined.

I am not misinformed. Please go over and join the longrangehunting forum. Lots of good guys and knowledge over there. Too often we see new cartridges come out and fail. The 6.5cm is a great cartridge and it will never die out completely but it is still in that phase of being the next "new" thing which is why you see the sales push you see. I reload, so I never worry whether ammo will be available or not. If I did not reload OR I worried about rifle resale value, I would not buy a 6.5cm nor would I buy a 7mm08. I would get the 308 and call it a day. The 6.5 caliber bullet is mediocre on large game. It will certainly do the job (a 223 will take a deer just fine) but the 284 and 308 caliber bullets are better on larger game. I have experience with all 3 calibers and have friends with LOTs of experience with them as well. If banging steel out to 800 yards then yes go for the 6.5cm but if black beer or elk are in the picture, id tend to lean away from it. Yes it will do fine, but inside 500 yards...the 308 and 7mm08 are still the way to go in my opinion. If Whitetails are the largest game you will hunt then sure go for the 6.5cm. Just my two cents.

[clm2112]

I guess I'll offer a little different point of view.... if starting from scratch I'd go with a 308 Win just because it is such a well understood and available cartridge. Yes, to some it is boring. On that I'll agree. But then, I want to work on my skill as a shooter and less on doing load development.

I only make three flavors of 308 Win cartridges: A single 168grain SMK @2650 fps target load for my M1A and bolt action target rifles. The same load with a 168grain A-Max turns the same rifles into effective hunting rifles. And last, a 150gr Game King load for slower twist sporting barrels. Then I make them by the hundreds. I do keep round counts on the barrels, but I don't get worked up about it. Barrels are like tires on a car... when they are worn out, you replace them.

I may play around with other calibers in small batches, but I always go back to the 308 Win and recommend it to anyone who wants a good general purpose rifle. If I had multiple 7mm-08 rifles (or any other reasonable caliber) I would be doing the same thing with that caliber.

Now, to the OP... you have good general purpose rifles to start with, so it would make sense to me to just keep re-barreling those until they are worn out instead of buying another rifle. Put the money into keeping yourself supplied with ammunition.

[LoneWolf]

Note: I'm done

Just some additional comparisons:

http://www.accuracy-tech.com/6-5-cre...08-winchester/

[Bigeclipse]

Note: I'm done

Just some additional comparisons:

http://www.accuracy-tech.com/6-5-cre...08-winchester/

I do not disagree with you there. the ballistics are great. The problem is real life experience on game. Many of us (longrangehunting forum) along with many others have had just "ok" results on large game with the 6.5mm bullet. Yes, it will take whitetails all day long and so will a 223. I just believe that the 284 or 308 caliber bullet is a much better tool on whitetails or larger game inside 500 yards.

[BB68]

....

[J.Baker]

If the 6.5 CM is still as popular as the 7mm-08 or .308 in 25 years maybe I'll start putting it into the same category as those two, but until then it's just the new kid on the block. Fads come and go, as do new cartridges - only those that warrant it stick around for generations.

[foxx]

^^^If I am still around in 20 years, I will still be shooting my 260. Fad or no fad.

But then again, I have underwear that 's almost 20 years old. :)

[Deadshot2]

For big game hunting the 308win is more versatile than the 6.5cm. At the cost of more recoil.

Very easily remedied with a good muzzle brake. Yesterday I went to the range for a half day of shooting after recovering from Quad bypass surgery. Finally got to shoot the brand new .308 barrel from Benchmark that was equipped with their Tactical Brake (which includes a caliber specific compensator port on top). The amount of felt recoil was less than a bolt action .223 of similar weight.

My chest is still a little tender after having the "wishbone" split but the braked .308 with 175 gr bullets was no problem at all. Does a .308 need a brake? Not at all but when you shoot one for day long sessions it sure is nice, regardless of bullet weight and load.

[Zero333]

could not disagree more. You obviously either do not have the same rifle in 308 versus 7mm08 (same weight rifle same stock etc.) or you do not shoot the same ballistically matched weights in their respective calibers to say they recoil the same. To get the same terminal ballistics and flight characteristics in the 308, you will need to shoot a 165-175grain bullet compared to the 7mm08 popular 140grain. The only way to achieve similar velocities would be a very high charge loading at or above book max and would be a "significant" amount more recoil. That being said, a 308 does not recoil too bad anyways so this becomes a moot point for anyone who is not recoil shy. In my opinion, the 7mm08 wins hands down on medium sized game (deer...maybe an elk) out to 500 yards between the 3 calibers. From 500-650 yards id probably look into the 6.5cm because it will handle wind better than the other 2. You should go join the longrangehunting forum...lots of great info over there.

To the OP...all 3 are great cartridges. As you have stated, the 308 will be the easiest to get ammo at reasonable prices. It will have a wide range of bullet weights to choose from but be careful as the twist of your barrel will dictate which bullets will likely work best beyond 200 yards. The 7mm08 will have less options for ammo BUT all gunshops will carry it, most sporting goods stores will carry it and even some of the big box stores will as well. The ammo will be more expensive compared to the 308. The 7mm08 will be harder to sell should you want to sell it. This is where the negatives end. The 7mm-08 will shoot flatter with less recoil. I personally think it is the best of the 3 for whitetails and even more so if you reload (because ammo availability does not matter). The 6.5cm is a great cartridge but I still think it is too new to see if it will hang around or if it will go the way of the dodo. If this is your first gun and you are not recoil shy, you certainly cannot go wrong with a 308 (and maybe id pick it just because it will be easy to sell should you want to get rid of it). If you are not new to hunting/shooting and you will hold onto this rifle, then id highly consider the 7mm08.

Technically you're right, but my shoulder can't tell the difference.
I have 3 mod 11's I use for hunting. A 243win, a 7mm08 (lefty) and a 308win. The 7mm08 weights 7.25 lbs and the 308win weights 7.4 lbs.
I'm not recoil sensitive whatsoever, so maybe that's why I can't feel any difference.

[Stumpkiller]

The Scandinavian hunters have been using the 6.5x55 to hunt Moose for a very long time.

And they are smart enough to use a semi-Spitzer 156 gr bullet in the 6.5mm for large game. Compare a 156 gr Norma Oryx (Sako Deerhead) to the 1890 era Hornady 160 gr round nose.

Remington screwed the pooch when they introduced the .260 Rem (aka 6.5-08, aka .263 Express) with a slow twist. They should have used the 1:8" like Savage does (and Ken Waters did with the .263 Express in 1956) and gone with ballistic efficiency instead of trying to squeeze speed out with lighter bullets. A lesson they missed with the .223 Rem and .244 Rem

[Stumpkiller]

^^^If I am still around in 20 years, I will still be shooting my 260. Fad or no fad.

But then again, I have underwear that 's almost 20 years old. :)

The 6.5 Creedmoor is the fad. Ken Waters took the .243 Win and opened it up to what he called the .263 Express. in 1956. He commented in 1984 he wished he had used the now (and then) more popular .264" bullets. The neck diameter is the only difference vs the .260 Rem. And the 6.5-08 wildcat had a following before it went factory.

A 6.5X55mm Swede with a higher allowable chamber pressure that fits in a short action. What's not to love?

[J.Baker]

But then again, I have underwear that 's almost 20 years old. :)

So that's what I smell every time the wind comes out of the north. And here I thought it was emanating from a certain university up there in Ann Arbor.

[VAFISH]

Interesting replies. Thanks to all that have contributed. It has all been insightful.

I primarily hunt whitetail in Texas and the longest shot i would realistically take would be approximately 300 yards. I hope to take an elk hunt in the next few years. I already own a 6.5cm and a 7mm08. I am thinking about taking advantage of some of the mfr rebates going on and have seriously been considering either picking up another 6.5/7mm08, going lighter with a 243 or 22-250 for the kids, or going heavier with a 30-06 or 308. I just can’t decide which route to take. Maybe I am good with what I have but I want to scratch the itch for a new gun.


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In that case get the .308 for yourself. How old are the kids? An AR15 in .300 BLK might be a better choice to get them hunting. A M4 pattern gun with collapsible stock will fit a wide range of sizes and the .300 BLK is good on deer or hogs out to about 200 yards and has very light recoil.

[LinemanBob]

I own only one centerfire rifle. I chose the .308. It will kill ANY north american game period. I can buy cartridges at any place that has too boxes of ammo in the building.

[foxx]

So that's what I smell every time the wind comes out of the north. And here I thought it was emanating from a certain university up there in Ann Arbor.

Oh, there's definitely a bad odor that comes from Ann Arbor!

[rmkey]

I don’t know a lot but the 6.5 has greater sectional density and likely great performance on game. But then I am just a target shooter. I have three 6.5s and one 308. On the other hand 308 ammo is available everywhere.


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[Will]

I can say I prefer 308 as I just went through the conundrum of 308 and 6.5.. Broke my heart to walk away from the tried and true 30.06 because well it is what I grew up shooting and in my mind it will always be the best round for hunting. 308 seemed to me to be the next best thing as most rifle makes have walked away from 30.06 in their higher end rifles. I figure 500 yards is about the longest I would ever take a shot at an Elk or deer as past that I worry that if I miss a bit and don't kill the animal and it gets away to suffer and die slowly. My next rifle will probably be a Savage Ashbury or a Ruger precision in 6.5 creedmoor to be a range princess.

[tb80]

Thanks for all the input. It is very helpful.


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[RustyShackle]

I don’t believe the 6.5CM is going to be a fad. It has gained too much momentum to simply go away. Heck, it far outshines sales against the Winchester short magnums and they’re still around and doing well. I think it will continue to see good sell numbers and factory ammo selections will likely get better. When I first started shootings the 7mm-08 there was very little available in factory ammo, now it’s almost everywhere you go. Simply put they are more efficient than a .308. However you are still likely to find better selections of factory ammo in the ol reliable 308 than 6.5 or 7-08.

[Stumpkiller]

I don’t know a lot but the 6.5 has greater sectional density and likely great performance on game. But then I am just a target shooter. I have three 6.5s and one 308. On the other hand 308 ammo is available everywhere.

As a target shooter you might appreciate that .264" bullets have relatively less wind drift vs. the .308. Sometimes about half as much.

The 6.5CM will last because it fits well in a AR platform and has a lot of factory fodder available. But in a short bolt action rifle the .260 Rem is still a good alternative for a reloader (who doesn't want to search for brass after every shot).

Happily - they're both good!

[Spring1898]

Well I hope you bought something, because as far as I know the 2017 promotions are over and no 2018 promotions have replaced them yet.

If you already have 6.5 and 7mm-08, I would rule both of those out immediately and expand the experience to new calibers.

For a new kid-friendly rifle (assuming you don't reload yet), a .243 is great rifle which ~20% less felt recoil than a similar 7mm-08, and ~40% less than a 308. Should be good for deer comfortably to 200m.
(That said, as a skinny kid I found .30-40 krag carbine, just under 308 in recoil, with a metal buttplate comfortable to shoot, but that was up north with heavy jackets.)

Between 308 and 30-06, I prefer 308.
But for a pure hunting rifle for an adult who won't notice a slight increase in recoil I would have to recommend 30-06 as it is more versatile and gives you a little extra punch at higher bullet weights. Unless we are talking varminting, I don't think you will ever find that 30-06 is a real limitation in anything. Plus you have easily available factory loads from 120gr - 220gr. It covers all of your NA large game hunting needs from now into the future.

I like 308 because it can do pretty much anything, but a 30-06 will do everything. If I could only have one 30 caliber rifle, it would be 30-06.

[tb80]

Really interesting read everyone. I really appreciate all the input. I decided to not go the 308 route at this time. I actually picked up a savage 17 hmr. I thought since my kids still have a few years until they can shoot a full sized rifle it would be a good rifle for them to learn and practice on. That being said, I am saving this info because in another year or two I will be looking at these different calibers again to try to figure out which one to buy.


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[Deadshot2]

For a new kid-friendly rifle (assuming you don't reload yet), a .243 is great rifle which ~20% less felt recoil than a similar 7mm-08, and ~40% less than a 308.

A good muzzle brake will do the same.

I like 308 because it can do pretty much anything, but a 30-06 will do everything. If I could only have one 30 caliber rifle, it would be 30-06.

And with the new barrels and bullets we have today one doesn't need to view the 30-06 through the same lens we used for all the Mil-surp '06 rifles/ammo that were so plentiful from the 50's on.

I will always own a 30-06 along with my other caliber rifles.

[psharon97]

From what I've seen from the OP is he wanted to take deer at at a max range of 300 yards. At that range, the ballistic advantage offered between the 308 and the 260 will be negligible for real world. Granted the 308 will drop a lot more and will not be as forgiving in the wind as compared to a 6.5mm cartridge. The 308 will require more practice if you want to shoot and ethically kill deer at that range.

But that's not the biggest advantage of the 308, when comparing to the 6.5mm cartridges. The biggest advantage is I can go to just about any small town store and still be able to buy 308, 30-06, 30-30, or 270. That is the advantage with these cartridges.

Europeans have been hunting with the 6.5x55 for decades and it clearly has enough horse power to take down reindeer and moose in Europe.

[want2ride]

Since the 6.5 Creedmoor has been the best selling cartridge for many years now, pretty much every store is going to sell 6.5 Creedmoor hunting rounds. so that arguement is pretty much put to rest.