Reply With QuoteThe sear is dragging somewhere in the stock.
I recently completed a pillar bedding job on my 260 (on a 11/111action) with a Boyds Pro Varmint stock. For those who have done this before me... The rear pillar had to be notched so that the action and trigger would cycle correctly. After notching the pillar, I now sometimes have light firing pin strikes.
I'm wondering if this is because I don't have the pillar notched quite well enough, and the trigger mechanism isn't getting fully "cocked"? I also have my accutrigger turned all the way down, but it feels heavier then it did before I pillared the action.
Anybody have an idea of what might be the cause? or have any of you had the same experience? what did you do to fix it?
Please help me figure this problem out it's driving me nuts... I can live with a heavier trigger if I have to, but I can't live with a weapon that doesn't fire when it's supposed to.
The sear is dragging somewhere in the stock.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
Thanks Sharpshooter.... I think its dragging on that rear Pillar... I think I'll try to file it off/out a bit more.Originally Posted by sharpshooter
Could be the rear pillar or could be the side of the stock if it's a top bolt release.
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Aside from the rear pillar, I also have recently discovered or heard that if the accutrigger is turned down too far (2.5 lbs) which mine was, that it can also cause the light strikes... I have the bottom bolt release also. So I took it apart again last night and turned the trigger up one full rotation (the spring looks much more uniform now). If that doesn't fix the problem, then it's the rear pillar I will mess with next. I'm leaning more towards the trigger being too light as the cause of the problem... I didn't have any issues with the light strikes before I turned the trigger all the way down. (I turned the trigger down the same time I did the pillar job however) so it's got to be one or the other.
11/111 ? It's either or.
I'm not sure that a light pull weight would cause light strikes. It could trip the sear causing the safety feature of the trigger to stop it and lock things up. I would think that the sear is seeing friction from contact somewhere
RustyShackle, I will also check out the rear pillar if the problem is still there.... It can only be the accutrigger being too low, or the rear pillar hasn't been notched quite enough... I didn't have this problem before I messed with those two things.
I'm just not seeing how a light trigger pull could cause light strikes? When the sear trips, it trips. If the over travel is adjusted too tight that can cause issue. You have a link to any info regarding this? I'm just curious and would like to expand my knowledge a little.
Cheers
Rusty Shackle,
I am with you on that theory... It didn't seem to make sense to me either, but I found a video on You tube where a guy was having the same issue... Some of the commenters said that they had the same issue when they had their trigger turned all the way down. When they turned it back up, the problem went away... Only thing I can figure is that the when it's turned all the way down, there's too much travel in the trigger assembly, for my Pro varmint stock to accommodate... When I did the Pillar job, I noticed that it seemed to increase my trigger pull weight, so I turned it all the way down trying to lighten it up more... I started having the problem at that time... Even when I turned it down all the way, it didn't seem to be any easier of a pull and actually felt heavier... After seeing the video, I figured I'd make that adjustment and turn it back up (one full turn), now the trigger feels lighter again... I'll get back down to the range probably next weekend to see if the problem persists... If it does, then I know it's the sear hanging up on the rear pillar somewhere, and I'll take the dremmel to it again, and relieve some more wood or pillar... I noticed that the accutrigger adjustment kind of has a "tetar tater" effect... the lighter the trigger the more movement or travel it has... The heavier the trigger, the less travel it seems to have. So, I guess it's possible?
When the trigger is pulled the sear is rotated by the force of the cocking pin as it moves forward. The only impact the trigger can have that I am aware of is by restricting the movement of the sear. Something has to physically restrict the motion of the sear where it impedes the motion of the firing pin via the cocking piece pin. if the over travel is insufficient and the sear travel is inhibited by dragging across the top of the trigger where there is an arc machined into it this restriction can slow the firing pin down. As Sharpshooter suggested or at least I think he did, there is something that is affecting the movement of the trigger so that it can not get out of the way of the arc the sear travels in above the trigger. If it fires fine out of the stock, and you can test that with a primed empty case in the garage, then you have a restriction in the stock. If it does not fire then you have inadvertently modified/impacted the function of the bolt or trigger.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Robinhood,
no argument there... I agree that it could be the pillar is the problem or part of it anyway... I never had the problem before turning the trigger down and doing the pillar job. the weird part is that there is a mark on the primer from the firing pin, even when it doesn't fire. I then eject the round, firing pin mark is there on the primer, but no bang!! reload the same round and "bang" it fires... I fired 10 rounds at the range last weekend and I had 3 "no fires" on the first squeeze. reloaded the rounds and they all fired...
I'll take a look at it again and dremmel some more pillar or even the sear... The fat, flat, piece on the front of the sear needs to be eliminated I think....
There could be a rub at the rear of the trigger not allowing the triggger to move out of the way also. A light strick like what you describe is indicative of something impeding the movement of the seer.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Roger that Man... I appreciate your and everyone's help on this... It's rather frustrating... spent 2 years putting this precision rifle together ($$$) and to have it doing this..... And it being unreliable in a SHTF scenario or even on a big Buck/Elk has me pulling my ever graying hair out....
I had same issue with my 280 when I built it. I had action timed and trued. Turned out to be firing pin spring.
Rusty Shackle,
I found another instance where there is reference of the light strikes... Just an FYI for anybody else who also has difficulty in believing that trigger weight might be a cause.... See below....
First off, the Savage Accu-trigger is a fine "factory" trigger. However, it IS NOT thee quality of many after-market triggers (duh - the same can be said of Remmy factory triggers, and most factory rifle triggers for that matter). OK... now that we've established that Savage is no different/worse than other similar factory rifles, lets "fix" the accu-trigger issue.
The problem with ALL versions of Accu-trigger (there are 3 - with the "lightest being the Target Accu-trigger only found on the Target Actions and those have a different sear engagement and one cannot take a non-target accu-trigger and upgrade it to a Target model by swaping parts - you have to swap the whole thing). Anyway... the issue is almost always noticeable at the lightest setting and is due to a trigger pull technique which is less than perfect. To get the accu-trigger to function at the lowest/lightest setting, you will HAVE to have a nearly perfect trigger technique, making sure that you apply 100% of the pressure directly back toward you along the axis of the rifle. Any side motion (and I mean ANY) will cause the firing pin to stike the primer lightly. I'm not positive, but I think this has to do with a timing problem and ALL of my actions which have been timed and trued by SSS are flawless with the accu-trigger (which is partly how I drew this conclusion - a worthy modification for the Savage Target actions, and I have 4 so I know from what I speak here). I discovered this quite by accident as I took my Dad to the range 2x and he had issues (exactly as you describe) with ALL of my rifles. I was perplexed, as they would function perfectly when I would go try it after he would get frustrated (and that just frustrated him even more). What tipped me off was the fact that he is NOT a shooter, and I finally had this happen later on (once) when I was shooting next to a fella who had the loudest 30.06 I had ever heard (yes - I had my ear protection in place... he just had a horribly loud muzzle brake). Anyway... he was to my back and it happened that when he got off his shot just as I was near getting my trigger to break, I had this issue happen. Now since it was now "me" having it happen, I set out to discover why. Long story short (right...) I figured out that the reason it would miss-fire was that if I were to apply any side movement to the trigger, I could reproduce it 100% of the time.
So... try this out. Go back and re-try this, but make 100% sure that - when you experience it - you recock the trigger (just lift the bolt back up) and make 100% sure you pull the trigger back 100% to the rear (no slight deflection to the side at all).
Having said this, I would actually recommend a trigger upgrade (who wouldn't given the typical factory trigger quality of any stock factory rifle). The Rifle Basix are truely an awesome trigger and the one I'd recommend (albiet the SSS can also be great - just not as easy to install and make it work correctly - or so I've heard). IF you can work on your technique, you can set the accu-trigger to it's lightest setting and it will work as designed. It's also not a bad idea to keep the accu-trigger away from the lightest setting as this also makes quick cycling of the bolt inconsistent with the cocking of the trigger as this can set off the safety mechanism that will not allow the trigger to fire.
Good luck and all the best!
Jim
This article describes the Accutrigger working as advertised. The safety blade stopping the sear from traveling it's full path. It is doing what is designed to do.(Post #7 Rusty Shackle) in this case. Under those circumstance the firing pin is not free to fall because the cocking piece pin is stopped by the part of the sear that extends into the bolt raceway. This happens with the Accutrigger anytime the safety blade is not depressed before touching the trigger itself. You will not ever see where the firing pin hits the primer under these circumstances. It is my belief Savage misnamed the trigger. It should have been called the Safetrigger. Safetrigger(Accutrigger) is not about accuracy because its design is to keep the riffle from firing when the person in possession of the rifle is not ready.
You stated "After notching the pillar, I now sometimes have light firing pin strikes."
Light firing pin strikes - Firing pin contacts the primer but no ignition
Tripped Accutrigger - Firing pin is restricted from protruding from the boltface enough to contact the primer.
Which one is your problem? It cannot be both? well it can be but they are indicative of two different issues. Identifying this can determine what issue to focus on. If both, then start with the safety blade. This is the issue where you get no primer strikes and was eliminated by putting more preload on the trigger.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I'm still skeptical that a less than perfect trigger pull can result in a light primer strike. I'm thinking that the rifle referenced in the post probably has another issue that is only showing under the less than perfect trigger pull. Not sure what the tolerances are on the pins and trigger assembly, but couple that with a very tight overtravel adjustment and you could possibly replicate that issue.
To the OP, you might check and see what your over travel is set at, or at least get an idea. Also look at the bottom of the flat part of the sear. It might have a mark on it from pillar. Not sure if your top release or bottom but I would scrutinize any possible contact areas.
Sageratshooter; have you tried taking the action out of the stock and replicate the light pin strike? I'd be interested in what you find as I have suffered light/no pin strikes with my target accutrigger and have no idea why it's happening. They're rare, but still, would like to know.
Banning a gun will not solve what is a mental health crisis inflamed by incendiary rhetoric on social and television media. The first amendment in this case is less precious and more likely the causal factor than the second amendment.
Houston, We have found the issue...!! As most of you have suggested and SharpShooter in particular, I still wasn't buying the trigger weight setting as being the only problem or even the primary one for that matter. So I decided to take another very meticulous look at the pillar. Upon putting some good light and being able to look at it from different angles, I found the issue (pretty sure anyway). During installation of the rear pillar, it did get turned ever so slightly, so the flat notched part that I filed off wasn't perfect. And when I turned the angle just right, I could see a rub spot on the pillar where the sear is dragging. There's not a mark on the sear however that I've been able to find, which is what I was looking at originally when trying to identify a rub spot. Lesson learned!! As always, thanks again!! You guys rock!!
So were you getting any dents in the primer after experiencing "light firing pin strikes?" If you were, I am quite certain poor shooting technique was not a contributing factor here. If the Accutrigger's safety blade is not depressed fully before touching the trigger it will block the sear from falling and prevent the firing pin from striking the primer. PERIOD. You won't get light strikes, you will get NO strikes. If, however, you are actually getting light strikes, something is rubbing, slowing down your firing pin, just as Sharpshooter said. If your father or anyone, for that matter, is not triggering the Accutrigger properly, causing the safety blade to block the sear, it is a totally different issue, unrelated to light strikes.
Having said that, your dad might be messing up with the Accutrigger, and you might also be getting light firing pin strikes. Just don't confuse the two.
Foxx, I did have firing pin marks on the primer even when it wouldn't fire the round... As said above, I'm pretty sure it's the pillar causing the issue. Will be getting that part corrected this coming weekend, get it sighted in again, and get it ready to go Elk hunting (as a back up rifle). Still trust the 30-06 and a Barnes TTSX a little more right now, but it's always good to have a back up rifle... That works properly... :) heading for far eastern Oregon on Nov 1st... Hopefully will have a chance to stretch the legs on it while I'm over there.
Thanks again as always,
^^^^cool. THat was my original assumption when you first said you were getting light strikes. Sometimes, though, people assume that's their problem when in fact they are not getting any strike due to shooter error with the Accutrigger.
But, for the benefit of others reading this thread in the future...
You were CERTAINLY getting some drag on the firing pin due to interference which lightened the strikes. On OTHER occasions, there was likely another issue with the shooter not pressing the Accutrigger properly. In those situations, the trigger was not dragging, it never had a chance to drag. The sear was getting blocked by the safety blade in the trigger as per it's design.
Glad you got it resolved. Sorry if I am beating a dead horse, don't mean to. Just trying to help other readers in the future.
No worries Foxx!!! That's what I am trying to do as well... That's why I posted the article I found about the lateral forces on the trigger too.... It could have been either one or both... just wanted to give some troubleshooting options for anyone who may have the same problem someday... I mean, that's why we come to this site isn't it....
All right, just wanted to finish up this post with the resolution, Took the 260 down to the range after doing some more work on the pillar to relieve the "drag" on the sear. wound up taking a bit off the back of the sear as well, just to ensure I had plenty of clearance. Got back to the range and had 0 misfires out of 10 shots. It's all good to go!!
Thanks again to everyone here!
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