Properly? No. Close? Yes.
I want install a 22-250 barrel. I don't have go no-go gauges. Can you set the head space properly with 22-250 brass?
Properly? No. Close? Yes.
Originally Posted by keeki
Guess it doesn't really matter. If ya cant afford $15, you won't be buying much anyways
NO. Anyone that says yes would be wrong.
Yes.
Brass is "spongy" and you're likely to not get great results.
I have heard if guys filling a piece of brass with jb weld or similar and using that. Don't know that I would recommend it.
If you do use brass to set your headspace just let the folks next to you at the range know that you may not have your gun within SAAMI specs and your rifle may grenade.
You can rent headspace gauges for a reasonable amount.
I've changed barrels over 100 times, always used fired fl sized brass to set headspace, no blow ups yet.
joe b.
His question was, could you set headspace "properly" with brass, not whether or not it could be done. Big difference. I'm just surprised so many backyard gunsmiths would risk it, let alone promote such irresponsible practices.
Anybody willing to rent me some 22-250 gauges?
Yes you can. It can be a bit of trail and error if you are tyring to match another chambver like I was, but got close and then fine tuned it.
Pray tell what blows up?If you do use brass to set your headspace just let the folks next to you at the range know that you may not have your gun within SAAMI specs and your rifle may grenade.
You can rent headspace gauges for a reasonable amount
If its too long you will get one of two results.
1. Its too far out and the thing won't fire because the shoulder does not stop and the firing pin pushes the case as it hits the prime
2. Its on the far side of field reject like many mil surplus and you fire form the case to the chamber. That won't blow up either.
You are better off doing a minimum bump back and let the case live as long as it normally would.
3. Too tight and the bolt wont close. Also won't blow up.
Try a British 303, head space and chamber are out of sight, you may get 3 reloads before the brass cracks, but it won't blow up.
I can't believe how much misinformation and dangerous suggestions about headspace are on here.
This ^Originally Posted by RP12
I always use a a piece of brass for a go but I always use a no go
It's simple if a no go does not go you can't be to far out and if you are to tight bolt won't close
Old Smokey
Read this and you may re-think your position.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/GunTech/....htm?lid=17125
Some things just require the correct tools. You can get by without them on some level or another but to perform the task correctly you will need the proper tools. The gauges are not cost prohibitive, and are a far cry from the expense of a doctor visit or replacing damage parts (bolt head, extractor, action etc...). A case head separation can case all kinds of damage to the rifle, you and/or others.
I try to think of the poor soul who may end up with a rifle of mine in the coming years and I don't want to lay a trap for someone.
Good Luck!
The questions was do have to have the gauge(s) , I prefer them but I can also wing it as I did recently (after I had explored it with the right gauges)
The reality is a case separation is not going to occur on a first firing.
If you do max resize, it will occur on the 5th to 8th firing.
It helps iuf you list exactly what you mean and or bring in references per the one post.I can't believe how much misinformation and dangerous suggestions about headspace are on here.
It more or less confirms my position.
When you holler Wolf, and there is no wolf, then you loose credibility.
So, first mistake in their write-up is the neck cracking. That's an anneal issue (the neck got hardened and split, annealing will solve that) - head space has nothing to do with it.
Next, base cracks. That is only loosely associated withy head spacing. If you never shoot that piece of brass again, its zero.
Its only if you reload does it begin to factor in.
And then its still going to happen if you do not do minimum bump back.
Most people do not work with Mil Surplus guns, that's my background and it teaches you a lot.
Said guns are not intended to use reloaded ammunition. They are intended to have larger chambers (and head space) so that in combat you don't foul out of the fight with a crudded up chamber.
That's where I learned about base cracking, full re-size on a gun that is at field reject from the factory (or armory) and its going to go pretty fast.
Rather than say its going to kill you run and hide, it would be better to explain it correctly and the avoidance for that.
Head space gauges are not going to do squat in that regard. A shoulder measurement on your fired case and setting up to bump back .002 will on the other hand.
No firing not firing the round is not a disastrous thing, though I have done it and its annoying (I had 3 other guns so did not stop my fun that day)
Sinclair sells head space gauges and I am glad they do, but they over do it in their zeal IMNSHO
Wrong again. The question was " Can you set the head space properly with 22-250 brass?"
The answer is still no, no matter what theory you can conjure up. Sizing dies are not made with the same reamer a chamber is reamed with. Tolerance stacking becomes an issue.
If if you know the datum diameter and can measure from the datum to the cartridge base correctly, and can find a piece of brass that fits that measurement, you can set your headspace fairly close if you can guarantee that screwing the barrel down doesn't change the brass measurement. Even then, its still not being set "properly".
This thread has about run it's course.
Last edited by Hotolds442; 09-11-2017 at 07:42 PM.
Originally Posted by keeki
Guess it doesn't really matter. If ya cant afford $15, you won't be buying much anyways
For a person that deals in thousands of an inch for a living it is not so scary. For the average person who has never done dimensional measurements.... it can defy logic. Hottolds hit it as did joeb and RC 20. If you shoot factory ammo, gauges are a safe bet. I would be more afraid of head protrusion than missing headspace by a small amount for the reason RC 20 stated. There is a small window that you can set headspace within. If you size your brass excessively small, the face of your bolt head could possibly rub on the face of the barrel breach. If you use brass to headspace and you comprehend the process and understand what the datum is and how it is measured there is a good chance the sky will not fall. If you are unfamiliar, use a gauge.....check it thrice. The most important thing when head spacing a barrel is that you understand all of the relationships that are involved.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I did not see anything that harmed anyone. In my younger days with no mentor I did some foolish things as a reloader. Fortunately I survived. I also learned when an Savagesmith goes by internet articles and posts and not real world experience.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I think the biggest issue is encouraging individuals who have little to no idea what a "thousands" of an inch is, to build a firearm where these "thousands" become critical quickly. Only takes using a piece of brass used in said "historical" military firearm as a head space gauge, where it might be marginal at best. Then they go watch YouTube and see someone give them faulty information about setting dies and suddenly they are approaching an unsafe realm. Tread lightly would be my 0.02.
Some of you guys would go nuts if you had to deal with an Encore or Contender. They often have +/- .004 headspace, because of the location of the lug, the hole in the lug or the hole in the frame. You learn to measure your headspace and reload in accordance, or you live with poor accuracy and/or case separation. How do you dare fireform cases?
One of the beauties of being able to install your own barrel is that you can set the headspace. If you don't have the tools to measure headspace or don't know how to use them, IMHO, you have no business changing barrels.
I don't use commercial no/nogo gages or buy factory ammo. I have a couple of dedicated pieces of brass for each barrel and use 2 pieces of scotch tape for nogo. And, I make very sure my headspace doesn't exceed .002. Never had a case separation in a Savage ... yet. Headspace isn't the boogieman, I worry more about somebody trying to put a 6.5x47L in a 243. The 243 will go in a 7-08 or 308 and probably fire.... but accuracy and case life will suck!
Bill
This is what I have done for 30 years also. However, I still would recommend gauges if someone asks.I don't use commercial no/nogo gauges.... I have a couple of dedicated pieces of brass for each barrel... And, I make very sure my headspace doesn't exceed .002. Never had a case separation in a Savage
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