Reply With QuoteIn my state 6mm or larger ( CT.) but many deer have been killed by 22lr, 22 mag., and of course the deerjacker's special the 22 Hornet with a 40gr. hollow point. If it was me I would use a 64gr. power point and shoot for the lungs/heart.
By far, and I'm sure all will agree, is bullet placement. A heart and lung shot is the best and most humane way to go.
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In my state 6mm or larger ( CT.) but many deer have been killed by 22lr, 22 mag., and of course the deerjacker's special the 22 Hornet with a 40gr. hollow point. If it was me I would use a 64gr. power point and shoot for the lungs/heart.
FROGGY
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Do it today there maybe no tomorrow
I whole heartedly agree with this statement!Originally Posted by rjtfroggy
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Well, if you are replying to my post all I can say is I don't know what academy or military you refer to, but you were taught wrong.
Not really. What he was taught is what I was taught that massive internal tissue damage is what is desired in military ammuntion. FMJ bullets that pass through without fragmentation do not produce near the damage. Original issue M193 ammunition for the M16 used in Vietnam produced wound cavities beyond what one would expect for that caliber. The thin jacket bullet plus the cannelure caused fragmentation. The result was some horrendous wounds. Been there saw that first hand.
Exactly what I was taught... more often than not it is the concussion from the massive energy spike that causes massive organ failure... there are instances where clean through wouldn't matter such as medulla oblingata or some other critical nervous system area
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Again, have to agree with WBM. I was taught the same thing in the Air Force while going through Security Forces training.
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There is a reason sniper ammunition is not full metal jacket. It is designed to get in and come apart. Berger and Barnes went round and round about fragmentation bullets vs. expansion and high weight retention bullets several years ago. In my opinion Berger won the debate.
All I need is one that hits paper lol
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Me too.
The "massive energy spike" MAY cause permanent damage, but most often it causes only a temporary wound cavity, which may cause temporary incapacitation but not necessarily permanent damage -- unless the bullet fragments, as with the old M193 round. It was the fragmentation and the resultant damage that created the damage with those rounds, not the FPE. But that is irrelevant when we are speaking of using the .223 for deer, as the bullets used in the loads intended for big game are not FMJ designed to fragment, but controlled-expansion rounds specifically designed to expand but hold together and penetrate. Having used them on numerous deer and hogs I can testify that they produce rapidly fatal internal damage and usually exit, as a reliable big-game round should, when shots are properly placed.
Like I said early on, I'm not a hunter... I just understand the ballistics of it... I've always been told deer can be tough to kill... I know I've had 2 cars and the deer won the fights... but as far as what bullet kill a deer I couldn't tell you, I know my friends here that hunt don't want the bullets exiting and they don't want to chase them... that's about my extent of knowledge on deer hunting
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All I can say is, if your friends are pursuing a load that won't exit, they are pursuing a folly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a bullet that exits, as long as it does the work it needs to do on the way through. And in fact, given that often a deer, even perfectly hit with a bullet that does what it's supposed to do, will run a ways before expiring, a nice big exit hole is a decided plus. I've seen deer with heart and lungs shredded that made 250 yards -- dead every inch of they way, but didn't know it. In 54 years of killing deer I have never had a bullet fail to exit, and have never -- yet-- lost a deer that ran after the hit. In my first 40 years of deer hunting, I logged every one killed -- 220 when I finally stopped logging 'em 15 years ago, probably 35 or 40 since then. If any of your friends can top that, my hat's off to them.
That is your best bet Willy. Just find factory stuff your rifle likes and go with it. As long as you know the limitations of the 223 and go with them you should do fine.
As for your friends that don't like a bullet to exit that's nuts the more holes going in and out can let more blood out for better blood trails if you have to track them ! I have found with the 357 maximum pistol I use that blunt tip bullets do more shock and still exit than pointed bullets ! Normally with the Max it's bang flop ! 30+ deer in 15 yrs speaks for itself ! I also use pointed bullets in other rounds I load for but my go to round for deer is 357 Max !
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There is alot wrong with a bullet that exits where we live... it is one of the reasons you can't hunt with .223, .308 etc here is cuz there are to many other things that bullet may find if it exits... there are only a small number of center fires here you can hunt with. I think .357 mag you can if barrel is 5" or less but definatly nothing like .223 is allowed for hunting here.
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That's understandable having to use straight wall cartridges for hunting! But here in Ga and Wyoming where I used to live the only restrictions they had was cal no less than 6 MM ! Here in Ga they passed a law a few yrs ago and said any centerfire pistol cartridge! Well do you think a 25 acp or a 380 are big enough but this is people making laws that don't understand any ballistics or nock down power ! Before they changed the law it only allowed 44 mags to be used because of the FPE it created at 100 yds !
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I think the idea here with the restrictions is to try and make sure the bullet isn't exiting and hitting the neighbor 1/4 of a mile away... I know certain small caliber is restricted for hunting deer here also... if I remember right, it's early season is bow and black powder then shotgun but in shotgun season .357, .44mag .357 mag are legal but only if barrels are less than a given length...
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That's understandable having to use straight wall cartridges for hunting! But here in Ga and Wyoming where I used to live the only restrictions they had was cal no less than 6 MM ! Here in Ga they passed a law a few yrs ago and said any centerfire pistol cartridge! Well do you think a 25 acp or a 380 are big enough but this is people making laws that don't understand any ballistics or nock down power ! Before they changed the law it only allowed 44 mags to be used because of the FPE it created at 100 yds !
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Wow... they have changed the law here... here's the newest
Rifles chambered in .243 and .30-caliber and that have a case length of at least 1.16 inches and that have barrels longer than 16 inches are now legal for deer hunting in Indiana. Everything else, including (but not limited to) .270 Winchester, .35, .257 Roberts and .7mm Mag, remain illegal.
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I remember when they were talking about changing the laws here... never would have guessed it would pass... almost unanimously hunters here were against hunting with long distance rounds... they felt it took the sportsman ship out of it... don't get mad at me for saying that I'm just saying what most here said during the debates
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Does GA have alot of hills? Never been there so I don't know what the landscape is like.
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Where I hunt it is rolling hills nothing big but we have a farm we hunt about 25 miles away and it's flat as a pancake and covered in corn and soybeans!
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Here in Indiana it's pretty much just flat you get South there's some hills but nothing that can stop anything high-powered or that you would want to count on
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I just read that they change the laws here like one or two years ago I never thought I would see the day where anything high-powered could be used here
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