Reply With QuoteGood info, thanks for sharing!
In another thread there was brief side discussion about the Axis stock's flimsiness and whether it was caused by the composition of the plastic or the structure. My guess was the structure, but whether it was a lack of material or just poorly designed required further investigation. I have several injection molded stocks, so I decided to compare them. The stocks are a standard Axis short action stock, a Savage 12FV stock with the magazine and trigger guard removed, a Howa 1500 mini action, and a Remington 783 short action stock. The rifles are all entry-level guns, and the stocks are within 1 inch of each other in terms of length. I removed all the magazines from the guns. The trigger guards were removed from the 12FV and Howa as well as the Howa's magwell. Sling swivels and recoil pads were left in place.
Weight
The first thing I did was weigh the stocks.
Axis: 25.5oz
12FV: 30.9oz
Howa: 34.3oz
783: 31.4oz
I expect this to be representative of how much material is used in each stock. All the stocks have pillars installed, though the 783's aluminum are substantially more robust looking than the other rifles. The Axis recoil pad is also a different design than any of the other rifles'. I am assuming the difference is negligible, but I didn't weigh them to be sure.
With 18% less material than the 12FV, the Axis stock design makes a great deal of sense given the Axis' cost-saving design philosophy. It's possible they use a different, lighter material, but it seems unlikely given that Savage must buy their material by the truckload.
Forearm Structure
The next thing I did was measure the reinforcements in the forearm. I specifically looked at the reinforcement ribs and the width of the rails.
Ribs
Axis: 0.06in
12FV: 0.1in
Howa: 0.125in
783: 0.1in
Rails
Axis: 0.125in
12FV: 0.24-0.58in
Howa: 0.277in
783: 0.234in
The 12FV is obviously a little bit of an outlier here on the rails measurement due to its beavertail forend, but it's once again pretty clear that the Axis is coming up short. Even though the 12FV had similar sized ribs, there were two ribs that ran the length of the forearm compared to the Axis' one.
Wrist Size
Lastly, I measured the circumference of the wrists of the stocks. I took the measurement right around the middle of each stock's grip.
Axis: 4.5in
12FV: 5in
Howa: 5.25in
783: 5.375in
And the Axis is the smallest again, which shouldn't be much of a surprise at this point. It's also the only stock with the deep texture molding on its grip. Whether that adds to rigidity or detracts from it, I don't know.
Good info, thanks for sharing!
Now test for flex under load... You'll probably need two people to do this.
Test 1:
1. Orient the stock horizontally on a countertop so that just the top of the comb is in contact with the countertop (stock will be upside down)
2. Measure the distance from the floor to the bottom of the forend (this would be the flat on either side of the barrel channel)
3. Now hang a 5 or 10 pound weight from the forend as close to the tip as possible (wire through sling stud works well) and take a second measurement
4. Compare the differences.
Test 2
1. Same as above, but orient the stock so that the buttstock is resting on it's side on the countertop, and the edge of the countertop is just rearward of the grip/wrist area.
2. Measure distance from floor to forend as before with no weight.
3. Add 5 or 10 pound weight and measure again as before.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Those would be good tests to do. I was thinking something similar but have the stocks suspended between two raised points, one near the butt pad and the other near the forend tip and put the weight in the middle.
I had a chat with Al Kasper at the SHOT show about these synthetic stocks and it was discussed about tooling costs. The cost for a mold for the 10/12 was right at 150K. When the "Edge"(now the Axis) first came about, they found a new method to build molds that only cost 15K. Originally it was speculated that the Edge rifle could be built for 50$ less than the Stevens 200 at the time, but after the first year of production it actually figured out to about 75$. Flimsy....yes, but it all about the $$$.
There is no doubt in my mind that stock could be stiffer with more thought in engineering, and about 25 cents more in material.
"As long as there's lead in the air....there's still hope.."
That's a pile of money for a mold!
Unless that mold is for 20 at a time someone smoking frack!!
I think the stock on a B-Mag is even worse than the Axis stock. A few years ago I bought some Savage composite-stock rifles, and then I bought a Wby Vanguard and a Tikka. What a difference. I phoned Savage and suggested to them they should make a stock which costs only a few dollars more; they could easily make a composite stock that would be ten times stiffer than the "flex-o-matic". They obviously didn't listen so now I stay away from Savage composite junk, and that's what everyone should do, boycott Savage until they smarten up.
Naturally it's a multi-cavity mold given Savage's production volume.Originally Posted by James John
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
But if you're making thousands of parts, it will pay for itself!
Injection molding video
I understand the cost per unit ratio vs useful life, but @ 150k that's steep! Unless you factor in more than just production of said mold.
back on topic I'm really digging the scientific approach being taken to test these platforms. Would also be interesting to see where the strength/strain relationship for these materials and stocks are at.
The place I was always less impressed with on the Axis stock was the handgrip area, or the transition between the receiver and buttstock. I remember playing with the rifle and feeling a lot of twisting motion.
My Mark II .22 stock feels worlds better than the Axis and my Ruger American Rifle .223 also feels more substantial. Maybe Boyd's is giving a cut of Axis stock sales to Savage...
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks