So I was at the store earlier today and saw they had the new 7mm ELD-M 180 gr in stock. Cost was the same as the 162 ELD-M at $34.99 per 100. Looking at the BC numbers I couldn't help it and bought a box just to see how they would shoot or if my rifle will even stabilize them. At this point I'm not too optimistic as the twist rate recommended is 1-8. I have a 1-9. I'm going to give them a try anyway just for kicks. I'll be shooting these out of my Savage 284 Win with 26" barrel. It's a long action so COL is not an issue. I'll be working with H4831. I think I still have a little RL17 somewhere I might try.
Anyone used these yet that can provide some feedback? How fast do they have to be pushed to take advantage of the BC?
Advertised BC on the box:
G1 = .796
G7 = .401
Here are the banded doppler confirmed BCs for the ELD bullets. All the other bullets have proven through actual shooting to hold very true to these numbers. Your slower twist though will effect the BC. They list two BCs for the 7mm 180 ELD-M with two different twists. The .796 BC is an average of the two highest BC for the twists.
www.hornady.com/bc
Thanks Rob01. That was a good read.
I guess nobody on here tried these yet. I did load some up so now just waiting for some range time.
Started at 52.7gr and worked up in 0.3 increments up to 56.0gr. We'll see how she shoots.
The most important part of that read is (the science behind it), and specificly the first sentence, which says that (velocity) affects B C.
With a 7 Rem mag, using 65 gr 4831 powder with the 162 gr match bullet, about 3000 fps can be seen from a standard 24" barrel.
You wont be seeing that velocity with the heavier bullet. Other than a bit more energy, there will be no noticeable improvement, and if clicks are counted, any BC advantage wont show itself till beyond 7 mag effective distance.
New lures sell, even though the old familiar ones still work very well. But everybody else is doing it, so was there a choice for Hornady?
For what its worth, if you were to add 300 fps to the velocity for the 162 gr, it would still arrive about 12" higher on the target at 1200 yds than the 180, with the same amount of added elevation. And thats actual results, which always trump calculated results.
Bullets in the 162/168 grain class are the best performers in (any) of the 7 mm magnums.
Look at the wind. Even 200fps less than the 162 the 180 still beats it in the wind at 1200 yards by .5 mils for a 10mph wind. Wind at longer ranges are where the higher BC bullets come in to their own. Elevation is easier to figure with a range finder. Being better in the wind is key.
Well again, your falling prey to statistics. Certainly the heavier/higher BC bullets are better at longer distances, but there becomes a point where it becomes moot due to other reasons. With the 7mm Rem mag, it simply runs out of steam before the higher BC number becomes benefical.
It is an excellent cartridge, but by using the heavier bullets, it wont become a better one.
Frankly the same applies with the 338 Lapua and the 300 gr bullets. It would actually be a better cartridge with lighter 250 gr bullets for the distances the majority of users will ever shoot.
Don't be applying factors that might not even exist, such as wind when deciding on bullets.
If its going to cause making a correction necessary, a couple of inches wont matter anyway.
Sorry but not true. Just run the numbers on a ballistic calculator and you will see the difference. Why do you think people who shoot the .308 in F class are shooting heavier than standard bullets in the .308? Because they know the elevation but the 200+grn bullets even though they are going slower have the higher BC and do better in the wind. You got guys shooting 230 grn bullets in .308s. The 7mm RM can send the 180s out at 2800+. You might not be shooting as flat as a faster 162 but you will be doing better in the wind and it's not just a few inches. It's a few feet. It's not running out of steam before you see those numbers. Sure if you were only shooting shorter 500 yards or so it's minimal but stretch it to 1000+ and there is a good difference.
If you are not looking at wind when shooting at long range and taking that into consideration when choosing a bullet then you are already starting behind the 8 ball. There is always wind at long range.
I agree about the wind... I have a hard time guessing the wind along a 1,200 yard shot. I take great joy in hitting targets at long range with the first shot of the day. Follow up shots are almost guaranteed to hit their mark, so the first one counts the most. For me anyways.
You've just proven my point.Originally Posted by Zero333
Fact is all of us have trouble (reading) wind. Take a so called expert to a location he isn't familiar with, and see how much an expert he really is.
And the fact also is, there isn't (always) wind at long distances, and there's really only one (accurate) way to find out if there is and how much.
The games some of us play regarding first round hits are in reality just that. Nothing wrong with it, and if its enjoyable entertainment then by all means do it.
The fact that some competertors might find a certain bullet better for a particular use dosen't in itself make that a better all round bullet for everybody. If it were the case, how many of us would be hunting long range with 6mm Dashers?
If were talking about which one is the better choice for long range use in a particular cartridge, there is only one good way to find out, and it isn't reading data.
I would challenge anybody to try on their own which one they might prefer, rather than looking at say Berger, or any other data.
Take your 7 Rem mag and work up a good load for three different bullets. A 150 gr, a 162/168 gr, and a 180 gr.
Then go someplace you can shoot out to 1000 yds or further.
To be precise about it, all three need be zeroed at 100 yds individualy.
That said, if all three land in an inch group at 100, then it really isn't necessary, at least for the type information your seeking.
Once at your location, dial up the distance for the lighter bullet and shoot say 5 at the target.
Then (without) changing the scope setting, shoot 5 of each of the others.
I predict you might be shocked at the results.
Now I know there are those coming out of their chairs and shouting that you cant do it that way.
But fact is you can, (if) all 3 were very close at 100 to begin with.
If not, then rezero for each at 100 before shooting it at the longer distance.
Check out the BC numbers on the Sierra SMK 30 caliber 200 gr, 220 gr, and the 240 gr.
Pick the bullet you would likely prefer for 1500 yards.
I did the exact test I cited above with a custom actioned 36" barreled 30x378 with those 3 bullets.
My MV with the 200 gr was 3500 FPS with a load of 113 gr H 570 for the 200, 110 gr for the 220, and 108 for the 240.
I did not chronagraph the 2 heavier bullets, but the group at 100 yds from all 3 was a ragged hole of about 1 inch.
At 1500 yds it wasent even close, the 240 was I'm guessing 8 ft lower than the 200, and the 220 was about half that.
Yet at 1700 yds, all 3 would be within (about) a 3' diameter with the same amount of clicks, which was 200.
At 1500 it was 145/150 for the 200 gr depending on the day, and i had over 500 usable 1/4 min clicks on that particular scope setup.
So it took almost a mile for the bullet with the much superior BC number to catch up, and the reason was (velocity).
Of coarse, tomorrow all that could change at least for the wind factor, which would help the heavier bullets.
But that also brings about decisions about wether its maybe best to not even shoot that far, at least on that kind of day.
At some point the BC factor does in fact play a roll, provided there is still enough velocity left to capitalize on it.
But today, BC has become a very large sales tool, more than anything else.
I'm with Rob01 on this topic. That's why I've kept the same signature for all these years.
Here's the article where I got the quote.
http://www.6mmbr.com/heavybullets.html
"Muzzle velocity is a depreciating asset, not unlike a new car, but BC, like diamonds, is forever."-German A. Salazar
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