This is the closest group I could think of. Sorry if it's in the wrong group. Please move if need be.
Short back story. I bought a 6.5 WSM barrel for a project build. I ended up having to move etc... Long story short I put the barrel on and head spaced it with a fired cartridge. The project kinda got put aside. I decided to finish the project. My loaded shells will chamber just fine. However, I ordered some go/no-go gauges to make sure things were put together correctly. Like I said my shells that come out of my dies will chamber just fine. But according to the gauges, the chamber is short. The bolt won't close on the go gauge.
Here's the question. What would happen if I went ahead and used the gun as is with a shorter than standard chamber? Would accuracy be affected? Would it possibly create unsafe chamber pressures? Excessive recoil? Or would I be completely fine shooting it this way?
Thanks for the input. I would rather not have to tear it down again if I didn't have to.
You may end up with a stiff bolt lift after youve fired it if you leave it as is. If you used fire formed brass from another chamber (if I'm reading this correctly ) then that raises more questions.
Personally, I'd set the headspace using your go gauge. You purchased the gauge for a reason no?
Life is tuff.....its even tuffer when your stupid
{John Wayne}
My opinion is that you have a wildcat chambering. You will not be buying off the shelf ammo. If it works for you use it. It is no more unsafe than any other chamber. In the future if you buy some new brass and want to adjust the headspace to fit the go gauge then you can do that too. It will not effect safety or accuracy in my opinion. The brass getting stuck in the chamber is probably going to be from hot loads in a small shank barrel.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
As long as you roll your own ammo and it fits the chamber before and after it's been fired, you're good to go. I set all my headspaces on the snug side. Less brass movement when resizing. Not one of my rigs will chamber factory ammo (not counting my gas guns) and I like it that way. In my case, go/no go gauges are a thing of the past. Won't use them and got rid of what I once had. Fired and full length resized brass is my gauge.
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
You're probably not too short from your description. If it works for you I wouldn't sweat it. Often times, new factory ammo is headspaced shorter than what would be considered minimum. You could very well be able to use factory as well as your reloads. The only time you might run into trouble is running out of the ability to crank your FL die down far enough to get to the shoulder, although it sounds like you're not having any trouble so far. I usually try to headspace in between go and no-go.
I am going to disagree with Robinhood that its a Wildcat. It does not meet the definition.
Its a custom chamber to some degree, but if you set it with a fired case, that case came from another gun?
Factory ammo may well fit. Might be worth buying a small box to find out or if someone has factory try it.
Mine are all set to where the Go Gauge does not fully close. That's a tight fit of course. I don't shoot factory normally but it does chamber factory.
New Brass fits just fine.
My 7.5 Swiss Savage barrel is going to be different. I will fire rounds out of a K31 and an /11 and see how those compare and the headspace will be set off that.
As a go, I will use new brass (not loaded though)
Hopefully the dimensions are good enough I can size and shoot the same brass in both guns with the same shoulder setback.
If I can't then its split brass for the three guns.
I have an interaction (talk not shoot) with a group of pretty serous target shooters. They load theirs up so that they have to force the bolt closed a bit.
I don't care for that, but they say it adds accuracy. Maybe, maybe not. But they are a group of very well founded long standing good shooters and one gun smith in there who does dynamite barrel and gun work. He re-barreled my dads 1903 Sporter and it shoots 1 1/4 inch groups at 100 with a surplus slightly used military barrel. So he does know his stuff.
I do minimum shoulder set back and at times I am a bit too minimum. I don't have a problem shooting those rounds, I just adjust a tad next sizing session.
I was wondering who was going to call me on that. Technically you are correct. For the sake of conversation the OP probably got my point.I am going to disagree with Robinhood that its a Wildcat. It does not meet the definition.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Sorry I haven't replied. For some reason this site isn't sending me notices that someone replied. Gonna check the settings. Anyway. Thank you for the input I think the only thing I need to clear up is this. I bought the barrel from someone on here a while ago. I don't remember who it was. They sent me the barrel, dies and brass. The brass was fired in this barrel. But since it was on another gun the headspacing may have been slightly different so, yes and no, it was fired from another gun but the same barrel. As long as there are no safety issues or accuracy issues I will go ahead and shoot it as is for the time being. If problems begin to develop later like bolt lift I will address the headspace then.
As a side note, Robinhood said the 6.5 WSM is a wildcat, RC20 disagreed. I didn't get what Robinhood was talking about. I also thought it was a wildcat. Is someone making 6.5 WSM factory ammo? I haven't seen it and don't have access to it locally if they are.
Again, thank you for the replies. They are appreciated.
I went back and looked, I did not buy the barrel from someone on this site. It was a different site.
We get into technicalities and then ???? so as best I can explain it.
6.5 WSM may or may not be a true wildcat, there is some commercial ammo for it and some gun mfgs.
So call that I would not argue that one way or the other.
The difference between what Robinhood and I are talking about is if you take a standard cartridge (wildcat or not) and have a different head space from standard set of it (wildcat) or True SAAMI, is it a wildcat on a wildcat or a wildcat on a standard cartridge.
My take is its not and Robinhood is saying its sort of but trying to more use it as a reference if I am reading his response right.
If it won't eat factory or custom ammo its not a true to Wildcat or SAMMI cartridge.
Technically all it is a chamber variant with tiger (or looser) headspace off the cartridge.
By the very loose definition my Model of 1917s are Wildcats as they have a chamber that is standard to almost Field Reject. Ammo fits but it blows out quite a bit on the first firing. Those I just run separate 30-06 brass through.
So, if you adjust your 6.5 WSM tight to the fired case and then can close the bolt on a new piece of brass, you should be fine.
You always want to start low on loads and watch the entire gambit of pressure sings and not assume. That is bolt life harder, primers though they are hard to read, chronograph if you have it etc.
Originally Posted by lomfs24
Thanks again RC20. I didn't really intend on making this into a "what is a wildcat" discussion. However, I have learned from it so that is good. I didn't know that anyone was making 6.5 WSM ammo. That too is good to know. I'll have to keep an eye open for it and see if I can find any.
Thank you again everyone for the input.
I have never seen this.I didn't know that anyone was making 6.5 WSM ammo. That too is good to know. I'll have to keep an eye open for it and see if I can find any.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Its coming from custom ammo makers so it not going to be on the shelf, you would have to order.
Sorry about the confusion.
A good respectable debate is good as it gives a range of views and then the question asker can decide for themselves where it seems to fit per their end.
It's a simple job to headspace it correctly if you have a go gauge. Why not do it?
There is a good article on the 6.5 WSM in the current issue of Handloader Mag.
Great! Thanks! I'll have to check out that magazine if get out on the "hard road" and make it to a "Big Town". LOL. Sometimes it sucks to live in small town, but most of the time it's great!
At least you live in a town. You should try rural Canada. My wife calls it butt _ _ _ k nowhere! LOL.
Just my opinion but I figure that go/no go gages are the safest way to go. The pros use them so if you have them then why not. BTW I hope your go and no go gages are from same naufacturer. Different manufactures may have slightly different measurements
Pros use gauges over and over. We may do a barrel swap from time to time
I certainly not against using them and did for my first two projects though I had the one set already for different reasons I did by the set for the other one.
However, I am trying to match a new 7.5 Swiss barrel going on a Savage with an existing K31 chamber so I can shoot and reload the brass in both without over working it. No head space gauge is going to be the same as the fired case out of a K31 (or with a fair amount of futzing with tape)
I am also interesting in exploring the process of doing it that way, seeing how well it does and how close I can come.
RC20 , Jim Briggs from NSS ( original owner) once told me if you are going to use a fired case for head spacing to fill it with epoxy and let it harden so there is no give in the case when tightening down on the shoulder.
FROGGY
See profile for fire arms
Do it today there maybe no tomorrow
Good idea for those that use fired cases but how does one allow for any spring-back after the case was fired? Unless I had a case that had been fired a half dozen times without resizing (other than neck) I think I'd just stick to a manufactured H/S gauge.
Interesting points on both sides.,
You can adjust with a bit of playing but it would be playing and not know until the first rounds shot in the new chamber and the shoulder measurements taken.
I will probably continue as planned but good points.
With a go or no go gauge you could find the chamber length on the K31 with taping (its going to be close to field reject) and then transfer that to the new gun.
I always wondered about using one of the threaded cases from Hornady since I have them any way. Every single one I own measures spot on. So far I always purchased head space gages from Midway for my birthday sale price or a pair of good used ones. If I do put something new together you can bet I've been thinking about for a year or more so plenty of time to line things up. Last barrel I got from Jim Briggs I had the head space gages long before I gave him the barrel order.
What he said.
Out of curiosity, how many remove the ejector on their bolt when setting headspace? I'm new to Savage rifles but with Remingtons I always used a stripped bolt to eliminate the spring pressure from the ejector. Also did this when adjusting sizing dies, adjusting die so a chambered case would JUST let the bolt close with light finger pressure. I used the rifle as my "Check Gauge"
I don't, my brother does (he just did his first one)
While he does work on Mil surplus, I have done the checks on those as well and both the Model of 1917 and the K31 match each other in that they have a long shoulder. i.e. out almost to complete field reject.
While I know that excess head space can be a major issue with repeat firings, once the case if formed, if you do the minimum setback that stops that issue.
The other aspect is if you set it too far out the cartridge will not fire.
Too tight and you can't close the bolt.
If was going to do it then I would probably get a stripped bolt, taking the head and the ejector and extractor in and out would get tedious quickly.
Savage is safer with a fully enclosed bolt head as well (not that we use a safety as an operaitn control of coure)
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