Reply With QuoteThe 284 should net you a little more horsepower especially if you plan on taking down elk. If you were going for a 24" barrel, I would also add the 280 remington, a necked down 30-06 to 7mm.
I have a long action that needs a new barrel. I have decided i want to go the 7mm route. I want a rifle that has a great barrel life isnt to hard on the shoulder and overall fun to shoot. I also plan to go with a shorter barrel 22inch max but 18 to 20 would be better
The purpose of this rifle is to kill everything from paper to Michigan whitetails and maybe an occasional mule dear or elk every few years. Ranges will be as far as I can find on steel and i will probably keep all of my hunting to mid ranges maybe 600 max.
The two i am looking at is a 708 and have it throated for the 162s seated to the neck shoulder junction so the oal looks like 3.075 with 162 eldx. so it would definitely need the long action but i would block the magazine and use a bolt baffle from a 223 to shorten the bolt throw.
I also load 243 so 708 would keep some reloading equipment interchangeable as well as i have headspace gages. I also got a die set from a freind
My other thought is 284 win. I have lapua 6.5x 284 brass to use and that case would make better use of the long action but would the extra performance from the bigger case out weigh the added cost of dies, headspace gages, i have also been looking at power case trimmers that are based on case families so i would need a trimmer for both families.
My other concern is that the extra powder from the 284 will not gain me much if i only run a 20inch barrel.
Any insight would be helpful.
Thanks
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The 284 should net you a little more horsepower especially if you plan on taking down elk. If you were going for a 24" barrel, I would also add the 280 remington, a necked down 30-06 to 7mm.
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
outfitter les bowman advised people to bring a gun that they could shoot well. with 270 as minimum caliber. his advice was not to worry about caliber, but to put thoughts on good bullets.shot placement being priority. good luck
I always like that mentality. That is part of my reasoning for opting for a smaller cartridge that is fun to shoot. I never understood the guys that buy a big magnum and never shoot it because in a hunting weight rifle the recoil beats them up. I feel more confident with a rifle i know i can shoot that is a little light than the opposite
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280 Remington AI
"An armed society is a polite society"
"...shall not be infringed" What's the confusion?
Since you reload, get a 280 or 280AI barrel if you want to get the most out of those 160+ gr. high BC 7mm bullets. Use 120 or 140 grain bullets for fun and deer size game.
I was playing around yesterday and made a couple dummy rounds and i think i will have a hard time not going 284. With a 162 eldx seated just to the neck/shoulder junction it looks pretty sick. Oal if i remember correctly was 3.2
Not sure if i would stick to the 162 or if i would set it up for 175-183 range bullets
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I have never understood cutting the nuts off of a cartridge with such short barrel lengths. I have never found a 24"-26" barrel to be overly cumbersome in the field and in most cases will get you everything the cartridge has to offer. As far as cartridge goes noting wrong with anything that you have in mind or what has been suggested but I would also add in the 7x57 mauser and the improved version for consideration as well.
actually own 280ai myself. this gun has somewhat light recoil and can get a 7mm bullet up and moving. with all the new bullets on the market today and all the technology that goes with it, there is no reason to carry a big boomer. think a lot of the argument was started, between jack o'conner and believers of heavy bullets with Elmer Keith leading the charge. this has drug on many years later, and will not end anytime soon. as the population of shooters age (myself included) big bores will have less influence. saying that I still love 35 whelen, and 444 marlin with cast bullets. that is what has had sales of various rifles and reloading components moving. I hope it never ends. life would be dull if we all shot the same rifles, and same calibers!
I went through the same thing about a year ago. Finally went with a 284 Win on a LA. I have no regrets. It shoots great. 280 AI was a very close second. Who knows, I might just get another barrel in 280 AI too...
We should buy pickup trucks to haul the biggest payload we can envision hauling even if only rarely, or else own several trucks.
The same logic is true for cartridges also.
A 280 AI will give very close to 7 rem mag performance with considerably less powder.
Also a wide range of bullet choices suitable for anything large or small walking on this continent.
Whats not to like about that?
The 280 or 280AI will have almost zero advantage over a 7-08 in an 18-20" barrel, and won't even approach a 7mm Mag., considering those usually come in 24" min. The only thing you would gain, is more muzzle blast and flash. The OP's idea of a long throat 7-08 is the best idea of all, but even that will be limited by a short barrel.
As for the reason for the long throat, I am not sure that is the best one. You are wanting to use a "long range" bullet, but with a short range barrel length. If you want a short barrel rifle then do it, forget magnums and forget shots over 300yds at ANYTHING approaching elk size. I would use a Barnes 140gr TTSX and you will get superior penetration and performance within the limited range you will create with the short barrel.
You have specified 7mm, but if you are serious about elk, I would consider stepping up to a 308. Great performer from short barrels, and use a 168gr TTSX and I doubt you will ever recover a bullet, but you WILL recover the animal. Three deer have fallen to my using that bullet and it is excellent, and retains a lot of energy, with a BC higher than most 165gr .308 bullets.
Just my two cents worth.
I don't think it needs to be said again, but .280/.280 ai is the way to go. There is no comparison between a .280 and a 7-08, no matter the e barrel length. 7-08 is a little anemic. Not as bad as a .308, and has killed tons of big game, but If elk are on the menu go .280 all day. The straight .284 will give you more than the 7-08, the .280 will outpace the .284.
Nothing wrong with 7-08, but .280 gives you so much more and you already have the long action. 168's at 2900 fps is hard medine for anything. You would be lucky to get 2750 from a 7-08 with a similar length barrel. You would probably need to limit yourself to 140-150 g bullets with the 7-08 and a .260 will push a better 140g bullet with more authority than the 7-08.
Inside 200 yards, nothing you're shooting at will be able to tell a difference.
The deal here is a 20" bbl right ???
Ran the #'s in Quickload and....
7mm-08 with 162 amax, 3.00" coal, @ 59,000 psi, 20" bbl gets about 2,635 fps with common powders, and up to 2,647 fps with Ramshot Hunter.
7mm-08 AI, 162 amax, 3.00" coal, 59,000 psi, 20" bbl = around 2,675 fps with common powders, and up to 2,713 fps with Norma MRP.
280 Rem, 162 amax, 3.400" coal, 59,000 psi, 20" bbl = around 2,765 fps with common powders, and up to 2,797 fps with Norma MRP.
280 AI, 162 amax, 3.400" coal, 59,000 psi, 20" bbl = around 2,800 fps with common powders and up to 2,835 fps with a compressed load of RL-25.
If the barrel length is changed to 24" or 26" the gap between the 7mm08 and 280rem is even bigger.
My brother hunts with a 7mm08 and in a 7.2 lb rifle shooting 140's at around 2,770 fps (22"bbl), the recoil is no different than a 308win, and the ballistics ain't that much better than the 308win.
another 280/280AI or 284 fan.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
7-08AI or 7x57AI, go with a 1 in 9 for heavy bullets, but I like 140-150 for whitetails. Keep the long action! I lean towards the 7-08AI because you can use Lapau 308 Palma brass and get the small rifle primer.
Bill
You are spot on with 7-08. It's been my experience that the shorter barrel/loss of velocity is not as great as we always read about, especially with a cartridge that isn't an overbore such as the 7-08.
I've seen 1st hand the performance of the 139gr SST out of the 7-08 on Elk at 330 measured yards. Broadside shot in the boiler room and it's a done deal. Can't imagine why the 162 ELDX would be any lesser of a performer.
7-08 is a great cartridge. Equally as easy on the powder bottle as it is the shoulder and enthusiastic performer on game. You'll love it with a 20" barrel.
So, the .280 gains less than 100 FPS over the 7-08 in the 20" barrel. That makes the 7-08 anemic? Looks like a wash to me. Less powder and less recoil also.Originally Posted by Zero333
Rosewood
Hey guys. I am going to keep beating this topic to death.
I really thought i had my mind made up on 284 win. The one kicker is i am planning to go to Alaska in the fall and we will be flying. The game is deer and black bear. The only thing holding me back from the 284 is little to no factory ammo. Dont plan to use any but if my ammo was ever lost in travel it would be nice to stop and grab a box.
This is bringing me back to the 708. I thought about a magnum round but just dont have a lot of interest at this point.
The 708 ai sounds interesting as well. A little bump in performance as well as factory 708 ammo compatability.
What do you guys think? I would have to find a smith with a reamer or buy one. Would 260 ai dies with the correct bushing work for a sizing die?
I want to get this thing on order i just have a problem making decisions i guess.
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Found this pick online. 708 ai next to a 308. 180 hybrid stuck in that case.
It definitely has cool factor.
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Why the short barrel?
My vote is .280 or .280 ai. Even if it is an AI, you can buy .280 factory in a pinch.
No need for fancy throat/chamber. And, I understand the big long range bullets like the extra velocity...
Personally, I am a 7mm rem mag fan. Love the caliber. Will get a 708 eventually, but will shoot the lighter side. If .280 were as plentiful as 7mm mag, I would have gone with that. I started reloading, so I may eventually go with the .280 AI.
What am I missing. You are concerned about 260 not available if you loose the ammo (true) but then you bring up an odd ball (by our standards) of a 7mm 08. Nothing against it, sound like an interesting round. Hand load only up here.
7mm 08 though is even less available. Big box stores carry anything standard.
Local stores will have 30-06, 270, 308.
I need to start dropping in and checking for better reference.
So, if you land in Anchorage, Juneau, Fairbanks to star with you can get any standard ammo.
Once on a small plane your ammo does not get lost.
Rc20. Here in Michigan 708 isnt hard to find. I figured it would be common nation wide, but if not that is good to know.
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I will do a little research on 280ai. It has never really excited me for some reason. Maybe i just like shorter cartridges?
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I would bet there are more hunters in Texas with a 7mm08 than a 308. 5 - 7mm08's at the deer camp and no 308's
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
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