I have a savage 10 in .204
bought a used .308 barrel (app 200-300 rounds on it)
changed the bolthead to .308 ( the one that was in my 7mm08, bought PTG for it)
using forester guages to check headspace, all is good, I know my problem is in my ammo. My hand loads. Just not sure where.
go gauge = bolt close
nogo =no bolt close
sammi factory round = bolt close
my handloads = no bolt close
handloads are seated at 2.800
LC brass FL sized
trimmed to 2.005
No crimp
lee dies
i know I'm missing something just can't think of why it is, built a 7mm08 with no issues.
The first thing that comes to mind is try chambering a empty sized case (no primer, powder or bullet). If it doesn't chamber then it is a sizing problem. If it chambers then move on to another area, bullet seating depth. What dies are you using, full length or neck only?
You have one of two possible issues.
1. The bullet is seated so long it is sticking into the lands. You can't always go by COAL, if its a short throat (done deliberately in many cases).
So, if you push the bolt a bit, do you have to pop the handle with a screw drive to get it to come back out?
If so you are sticking in the lands and as long as you are not up in max charges, move it back .005 until it quits sticking, then another .015.
2. Your shoulder on your brass is not getting bumped back far enough. If Item 1 does not apply then its this one.
Usually reload bumps back too much so we have to find out which one here and then go from there.
What powder and load and bullet are you using?
I just saw where you listed your dies, so on that point "never mind".
RC20
looks like it's a sizing issue,
sized case I was using, will not close.
deprimed the same case, no close
checked die setup and found the die could be turned down very slightly, but did this,
lubed and resized another case with die completely bottomed out, bolt will close but it is very tight
maybe it's the die ?
Thank you you very much for taking the time to reply to this post.
Also I shoot these same cases loaded for an AR10 and they cycle good in it.
That does cause some issues then.
Crossing rounds between a semi auto and a bolt can be done but you have to resize it pretty good.
The best method is to get the Hornady tool that lets you measure the shoulder of your case.
Ideally what you want to do is bump it back .002 - .003 from the bolt gun but you can't do that if its been through the AR> .
If you have no basis as its been in an AR, then you need to do the full bump back. .005 or better.
RCBS tells you to turn it down until its touching the shell holder, then another 1/8 or 1/4 turn so you cam over a bit on the end of the stroke with no shell in the press.
That works the brass more but gets it fully resized from the AR.
Best is to separate out the brass from the two guns. Even a different mfg so they don't get crossed up.
I doubt its the die, do the tests first.
It sound like 1/16 more of a turn or even less will do it. If no measurements that is how you want to approach it, test a case, turn a very small amount, test again.
The idea is to get what you need with the least amount of cam over.
RC20,
thanks, I will just buy my brass for the bolt gun and keep,it separate, good excuse to buy better brass anyway.
Randy, If you have fired the brass multiple times, they may need to be annealed. The brass on a gas gun gets blown out so it gets worked pretty good during sizing. The enertia of the Semi auto bolt may force the round in there where you don't have that advantage trying to close the bolt on your Savage.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
You are welcome.Originally Posted by Randyc
The annealing Robinhood mentions is a world unto itself. I am most fortunate in having a brother that has an Annie induction.
I take it over about every 5 firings. As he noted, the Gas guns do work it even more. I think I get neck splits out about 10 rounds (or was) and the seating was getting harder out past 6 or 8.
And its most annoying, I though I had the basics down good from years back, then I find out things like shoulder bump, cracked head off brass (which the minimum shoulder bump per that gun helps to minimize) and split necks and neck tension (annealing end)
I have not gotten into neck turning and such yet.
Update,
i found some leftover Winchester virgin brass, primed , bolt closes easily, so I will just get some good brass of a diff. Manufacturer. And keep it separate.
Thank you to everyone who took the time to reply to my questions, and offer your expertise. Problem found and a fix is in the works.
I full length size all my brass back to go-gauge length. You need a headspace comparator or a headspace mic to do this.
So when my brass measures the same as a go-gauge, this means the sized brass has a working headspace of 0.002" to 0.003" (bumped the shoulder of the brass by 0.002" to 0.003" when sizing it)... Perfect in my opinion !
you need to use a small base die
You're correct. But before buying a small base die, he can try screwing the die as far down as possible, with a bit of excess overcam.
I've had this issue before and all I did was overcam the FL die as far as possible and it worked.
No he doesn't.
Why don't we let him get into this before we introduce more complexity and opinions.
There are 3 different takes on how to resize a case. FL works just fine.
Let him work out how to get the measurements and bump back to .002 or .003 and he will have good results.
I happen to use FL so I believe I can advise him well in that regard.
Latter if he wants he can get into the wonderfully nuanced world of necks size, small base size, zap 7 and Z 9.
Small base dies may very well fix your problem and they are usually used when reloading for an auto loading rifle. Your solution to purchase new brass and use it for your bolt gun only is also a good fix as auto loading rifle can be hard on brass and their chamber tind to be a bit on the large side (for easy repeated chambering). Either way works so enjoy!
I agree but there is a test to see if that is the problem. But you gotta have the tools.
I still think his brass is springing back, but again you gotta have the tools. So a new piece of brass tells the tale.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I fl size brass and use that brass to set headspace when changing barrels. In 223, 22-250 and 308 the fl dies size the case to ~ .002 under the RCBS Precision Mic zero.
On occasion I find a case that has correct headspace per Precision Mic, but when fl sized, still won't go in the gun.
I take a spare barrel, put the case in the chamber, and tap the head with a plastic mallet. Tap, slightly!
Each tap, try the case in the gun.
All cases eventually go in all guns.
I don't know WHY cases that measure for headspace correctly don't go in some guns, but it happens to me occasionally.
I had the exact same problem when trying to size my ammo. I was measuring to the lands and would set the sized case up. Used a round with a fired primer, resized without the decapping pin. Seated the bullet and set .020" below my measurement. When the bolt would finally close I was at 2.700" and the bullet would fall in the case. I rechecked all of my brass that I had resized as they all were having issues. I measured the necks, wrote down the measurement and ran a case thru the resizing die. I had the decapping pin removed(it was broken by PPU cheap garbage out of center primer holes). I rechecked the neck and it was several thousandths smaller. Went thru the process again. Set my depth and seated a bullet to 2.920". Popped my dummy round into the chamber and cycled easily/correctly. I sprayed the lube, resized all of the brass.....again.
I'm a newby at the reloading game but have a vast mechanical background and attributed this to.....operator error. I set up the die as instructed but do believe it was the operator's fault. I have since bought the Franklin Arsenal hand depriming tool, handheld, take it to the range. Pop out primers between 5 shot volley's. All my dies have had the decapping pin removed, cheaper to buy a pin for the hand held than to find a pin, etc for the RCBS. Bought three hardened steel pins for the Frankford Arsenal hand held and like this better. Captures all of the primers reliably in the cup so I'm not finding used primers all over the floor that have missed the catch cup on the RCBS. When I get home brass is ready to drop in the Rebel and get a wash.
Just glad to see I'm not the only one who has experienced this.
I received a Shilen 22-250 barrel, put it on a M10 action and shot it. Some cases refused to chamber. I went through the lot of 89 cases, and found that 5 of the 89 had headspace ~-.002" on the RCBS Precision Mic, and would not chamber in the shilen barrel. Using a M110 spare barrel, a few light taps got each of the cases in the 110 chamber and cases chamber easily in the shilen barrel..
Cartridge headspace can be correct and some/few cases will not chamber.
After I did my first barrel change, NONE of my resized brass would fit either. I had to reset me sizing die down to its lowest point, to where the ram cams over a bit. You must be able to feel this happening. Then the brass would fit but it was tight. I have a friend with a lathe and we turned 15 thou off the bottom of the die and all works well now.
Remember, virgin brass is slightly undersized. Once fired brass has lost a small amount of its elasticity and has stretched as far as it possibly can under firing pressure. With a tight chamber it means a VERY tight bolt closing just on your "go" headspace. It will need to be resized slightly below the spec were you want it because it will spring back a bit. I use a Dillon cartridge gauge to tell me if the brass has been sized enough. These Dillon gauges are wonderful tools for the money.
On a related note, I resized a bunch of LC brass. Some of them simply would NOT size down to where they needed to be. Probably one out of twenty was like this. I just chunked them and called it the cost of doing business.
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