Reply With QuoteThreads my be proud, lightly run a flat file over the threads
I have a new Savage target action (.223) and a new Shilen 1:12 .223 barrel with a large shank. The lock nut that came with the target actions screws on easily on top of a little white food grade anti-seize. The recoil lug slips easily over the shank. But the action itself gets two threads engaged and then binds. I am using only finger tension to see how things fit together, but I wanted to check in here before applying any torque with an action wrench. Is this normal? All my small shank barrels mount in the action easy-peasy.
Because the barrel nut went on with no issue, I am have concluded that 1) the problem is not gauling of the threads on the barrel shank. 2) The problem is not the having the wrong shank diameter. 3) The problem is in the action threads. Visual inspection reveals nothing obvious acting as an obstruction.
Is this normal? Does a new action thread need to be "chased" somehow?
Suggestions, advice, and dope-slaps welcome.
flangster
Threads my be proud, lightly run a flat file over the threads
When I bought a target action a year ago not one of my 3 large shank barrels would screw on. All the barrel threads were within spec according to my measurements and the paperwork that came with the action. I ended up having to put mine on my lathe and opening the threads up a little. I was pretty disappointed in the overall fit and finish of mine. It looked like they machined it on a Thursday before a holiday weekend and inspected it on Monday still suffering a hangover. Almost all the threaded holes were undersized and most of the cut surfaces looked poorly finished. I'm guessing I got one near the end of the tool life cycle.
Consider sending it back to Savage (or call them tomorrow. )
If its bad threads in the receiver then nothing would help.
You can spend like 100-120 bucks and get a Savage receiver tap and clean up the action thread with it. It's worth every penny, especially if you have more than 1 Savage action that you re-barrel.
Just search on the net for "Savage receiver tap".
Brownells has them for like $115
I have a mod 10 action (from a FCP-K 308win) that I could not fit any pre-fits to it.
I received a Shilen barrel with the exact same issue about 2 months ago... Barrel nut threaded on with no problem, but the action bound up about 2 to 3 turns on. Everyone cover their eyes... I grabbed a pair of leather gloves and twisted it on there. I'd forcefully advance it about 1/4 to a 1/2 turn, then back it off & wipe it down, which slowly shaved about 1/1000th of metal off of the threads with each advance.... back & forth, back & forth, back & forth, constantly advancing it a little bit at a time. My forearms were killing me by the time I was done, but I was darned if I was going to wait another 5-6 months to get another barrel!!! I figured if the nut threaded all the way on, the threads weren't off by that much.
I honestly would rather have a tight fitting bbl as above ^^^^ than a loose fit. My ER shaw bbl had a little play when threaded in, more than I would like.
Stainless to stainless with threads too tight can cause much wailing, whining, and gnashing of teeth when it's time to take her apart. A little loose is better than a little tight.
My advice is don't force it. If it doesn't go without a wrench then seek professional intervention.
Originally Posted by gbflyer
Well, at least I did it by hand without a wrench.When I finished, it threaded on & off very easily... hopefully it stays that way.
Hmm. Checked that out, but the tool is apparently for the small shank thread (1.055" x 20 TPI) not the large shank (1.120" x 20 TPI).
Here's a link for you; (more than you ever wanted to know about ordering taps)
http://www.newmantools.com/taps/taptech.htm
As suggested above, it is time for Savage to deal with it.
Ok, interesting an I am learning as well.
Good point on the stainless on stainless. I know all stainless is different, so call it a consideration in the theme of things.
You could also try Nichol anti seize and as noted carefully try it and see. That is where threads feel that mechanic feel comes in, not something you can describe as to if its a go or no go.
I didn't know they offer a receiver tap, that's good to know. Bot for future and pass on to those who might.
I don't think tight threads offer anything accuracy wise. If its binding you still have poor engagement on the rest of the surfaces.
The nut brings it all up tight. I don't claim the Savage system is a German Salazar quality fit and gun, but its capable of shooting competitive groups. Ergo, its pretty dammed close. Seeing how I am not GS though I am a GS that's good enough for me and what I do.
And you never use a flat file on a round thread situation. If you need to take them down, you use find sandpaper, wrap the thread and then roll the barrel. That gives you as uniform a surface as possible by hand method. Machines better but most of us do not have that.
You test often.
Flat file makes flat surface and then you wind up with some kind of odd ball uneven nut type hex shape with high Points and low flats areas. area. That is the worst kind of contact for threads. Having fought Chinese pipe, I can assure you its a pain and won't seal.
In my case, and because the action is brand new, I have decided to send it back to Savage rather than take an abrasive to the action threads or put money into another $100 tool like a thread reamer. Savage will either make it right, or they won't. If they do, then problem solved. If they don't then I can always screw up the action on my own dime later.It has been clear from this thread and from responses off-list that I am not the only one who has had this problem. That, in itself, is valuable information so thanks to all who responded. True to what the Savage CSR said on the phone, the UPS label is already in my e-mail in-box - so kudos to the company on that part of the response at least.
The other thing to know is that I am comfortable with simple armorer's tasks, but I have never trued my own action or chased the threads in an action like this, so rather than "learn" on this action and void the warranty, I'll have the manufacturer look at it first. I'll ping the list back when the issue is resolved.
Oh, and I did follow up with Shilen, who confirmed that this isn't normal.
It's not the barrel, this I can guarantee.
When I had this problem, I tried screwing the barrel on other actions and did not have any problems, even tho it was a little on the tight side.
On the problematic action I could only spin it 4 or 5 turns before it totally bound up.
This is due to a worn out receiver tap at the Savage factory. Although it might still work with Factory Savage barrels, it doesn't mean it's up to real world specification. Savage standards are on the loose side.
Hope they make it right and your new barrels shoots like a laser.
You did the right thing to contact Savage, I think. Hopefully they will make you happy. It's good for them to know this and their production engineers to see this action. It lets them know they need to tighten ship a bit. There are different reasons the threads might be tight, so it doesn't make sense to machine, sand or file them unless you know whats wrong. You can try things like marking them with a sharpie marker and looking for witness marks after trying to thread it on etc.
Good luck!
Savage had the action back to me in about 10 days, including shipping. The receipt said "removed burrs." The action now screws onto the Shilen barrel smoothly with no drama. Savage was awesome, in terms of how they solved the problem. Everyone has things that go wrong. . . what separates the good from the great is what you do when things don't go according to plan.
Good deal!!!!
I've very pleased to hear Savage made things right, fast. Hard to beat that kind of service. They acknowledged the problem and fixed it on the first try. Wish all companies worked like this.
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