223 fire-formed brass questions

[SCAST65]

First "reloading-based" post from a complete rookie.

Please take into consideration:

1. Most of you are (and will continue to be) more accurate with a ping pong ball and a slingshot in a stiff breeze than I am with my 12FCV. (I'm a long way from 'precise'. 'Nuff said)
2. The first purchase I've made towards beginning to reload is the purchase of a book,,, (Lymans 50th)
3. Quite a bit about reloading can be found on the interweb, so I'm trying to soak it in + explore my book before I get a press / actually begin to start reloading.

In the meantime:

A. I have a fair quantity of factory new 223 tucked away from my AR days,,, (Bulk ammo,,, Wolf Gold, PMC, Fiocchi, etc)
B. After the recent acquisition of the FCV, I have kept / sorted by brand all the 'new brass once fired' from my FCV.
C. My fire-formed brass + Collet die may be an option for creating more ammo to be used in my FCV.

And finally:

X. I have read that the use of a collet die vs full length die eliminates the need for case lube. Is that correct, or 'partially' correct?
Y. Also read that the use of a collet die (vs. full size) may extend the life of the Brass. I'm certain there are far too many variables to quantify exactly 'how much longer', and "YMMV" certainly applies, but what have some of you experienced?
Z. Thanks in advance,,,,,,

[s3silver]

B/C: select a headstamp brand and use that in your load workup. Using the same brand will give you more consistent accuracy. For plinking only, it doesn't matter.

X: yes, using Lee collet dies eliminate the need for lube. Clean by dry/ wet tumble or by sonic. After dry, use collet to neck size. I love the collet dies because no need to lube.

Y: neck sizing can extend brass life. I still recommend inspection after each firing, trimming as needed (usually after 3-5 firings), and annealing. Annealing will prevent the necks from cracking. Some people anneal after each firing and some after 3-4. I anneal after 3-4.

[s3silver]

Also, you didn't say what bullet grain or powder you're planning to use. Usually, the 223 is easy to load for. Good luck and be safe.

[bigedp51]

[SCAST65]

FWIW, I should have clarified #2 above to reflect: "The first (and only) purchase I've made towards beginning to reload is a book,,,,,,,,"

Have not decided on bullet grain or powder yet, (or even what type of reloading equipment,,,,) Currently comparing a few of the recipe's in Lyman's to what components are readily available locally, but will most likely lean towards a somewhat 'middle-lower' bullet weight as I'm working with 1:9 twist at short range.

Finite accuracy one way or the other isn't a HUGE 'be all/tell all' concern to me at this point as again, the 'nut behind the butt' has some work to do before I can begin to delve into the finer points,,, For now, just contemplating beginning to reload and what 'initial direction' I may take regarding certain aspects,,,

Thanks,

[s3silver]

I agree with this post also. I full length size my 6.5 grendel brass, with annealing every 4-5 firings. I got 12+ loadings out of the same batch of brass with very good consistent accuracy also. This was with hornady brass.

I guess it goes back to personal preference.

[s3silver]

FWIW, I should have clarified #2 above to reflect: "The first (and only) purchase I've made towards beginning to reload is a book,,,,,,,,"

Have not decided on bullet grain or powder yet, (or even what type of reloading equipment,,,,) Currently comparing a few of the recipe's in Lyman's to what components are readily available locally, but will most likely lean towards a somewhat 'middle-lower' bullet weight as I'm working with 1:9 twist at short range.

Finite accuracy one way or the other isn't a HUGE 'be all/tell all' concern to me at this point as again, the 'nut behind the butt' has some work to do before I can begin to delve into the finer points,,, For now, just contemplating beginning to reload and what 'initial direction' I may take regarding certain aspects,,,

Thanks,

I see. It costs money to start up because of all the reloading equipment purchases, but can save some bucks further down the road. Be advised, it is addicting so you'll probably end up shooting more making savings a wash. Most folks reload for the enjoyment of making their own ammo plus it makes their rifles tack drivers.


Nonetheless, there are many folks here that will answer your questions.

[SCAST65]

RCBS RCS and 'etc' should be here today. HF tumbler has been steadily rolling along. (Works 'better than expected' with just Lemi and Dawn, but stainless media also on the way)

Picked up a couple powders locally,,, 1000 primers,,, some Sierra's. More stuff on the way from Mid South,,,

Completely agree that reloading isn't a 'get rich quick' event,,, more of a 'new hobby' for me. All my hobbies cost money, so I don't expect this one to be much different.

I have heard it can be addicting, so I hope it peaks/holds my interest for a good while,,,

Improved accuracy would be nice, and it's probably the 'main' excuse I have to embark on a new hobby,,, I have no intention of competing with anyone, (Well, maybe with the Wife in a friendly 'grudge-match', but nothing beyond that)

As long as it's entertaining, I'll keep it going.

So we'll see,,,,,,,,

[jpx2rk]

You don't specify which HF tumbler you acquired but if it's just a vibrating tumbler, the it may not be suitable for the SS media. I've read comments that the vibrating tumblers don't have the power to effectively use SS media. I would just use corn or walnut media and throw in some used bounce dryer seats, and some Nufinish polish if you want shiny brass.

I skip the Nufinish and my brass is clean, just not all that shiny.

[SCAST65]

HF double drum (wet). Read quite a few good things about wet tumbling. As it's 'all new to me' even the quite modest set up I have is doing great in my eyes, even w/o the SS media.(On it's way, just not here yet) I reckon the addition of the pins will probably do a more thorough job inside and out.

Been tumbling capped 9MM and 45 mostly,,,, Mostly due to a hankerin' to sort out a 5 Gal bucket worth of mixed caliber Range Brass. (Do a 'clean up/organize by caliber/initial cull' first step of sorts)

Again, I'm waiting on equipment to arrive,,,,

BUT,,,,,,,

then again,,,,

I did happen to find (4) 'AMAZON' boxes on the doorstep when I got home tonight,,, One marked 'Heavy',,,,,

I reckon I'd better go see what's in 'em,,,,

=)

[Texas10]

I've been using a HF single drum tumbler for about 18 months now. Works great with 2 1/2 lbs of SS pins and 25 or so 223 cases. LemiShine and dish soap, and about an hour tumbling. Rinse good and dry in a hot box. Hardest part is getting the SS pins out of the small neck cases.

Your double drum will do twice as much. Just don't overload it or the brass will try to beat itself to death.

[jpx2rk]

I've been using a HF single drum tumbler for about 18 months now. Works great with 2 1/2 lbs of SS pins and 25 or so 223 cases. LemiShine and dish soap, and about an hour tumbling. Rinse good and dry in a hot box. Hardest part is getting the SS pins out of the small neck cases.

Your double drum will do twice as much. Just don't overload it or the brass will try to beat itself to death.

Only 25 cases at a time, or is this a typo, your choice??

I do small batches compared to others in my FA vibrator (50-100 max) because I went cheap on the seperator (no rotary media seperator) and wish I had spent the extra few $$ now, but plan on it just for the convenience. LOL

[SCAST65]

I haven't gotten my SS pins yet, but in the meantime I've been loading the drums up w/ Capped Brass to about an inch - inch and a half from the top and using only Water + Lemi + Dawn,,, just guessing about how long I should run them, but I've been tumbling them for about and hour and a half.

Does a decent job of cleaning and 'relatively quick' as there is no media to sort/remove. I just strain, rinse, towel dry, oven dry, done.


I assume the pins will do a better job on the interiors, but dang, just for general purpose range blasting ammo, the insides of the straight wall cases are 'clean enough' after just a water-lemi-dawn tumble.

Plans always change, but I'm contemplating a 'pre-clean tumble' on everything before it ever gets close to the press,,, (The majority of my 'stash' is range pick up and/or semi auto, so it's not as clean/pristine as some of the stuff others work with. Cleaning it up this way first makes for easier / less mess / less chance of me scratching up my dies)

Part of my range brass includes calibers I don't use,,, Good stuff to experiment my cleaning techniques with,,

FWIW, the wife was talking to a co worker who's husband also reloads,,, Reportedly, he uses SAND,,, (Unclear if he vibes or wet tumbles, but wife was thinking the latter)

Eh,, if that's true,, eh,, I just don't know,,, Can't say I've heard of such a thing before, and it doesn't seem like the best choice of tumbling media to me, but then again,,,, what do I know???

[bigedp51]

SCAST65

From your first post you have mixed brass that was fired in a AR15 rifle and this mixed brass may be a problem and case capacity and uniformity.

I use mixed brass in my AR15 for blasting ammo and its loaded to a upper moderate pressure.

Some .223/5.56 cases might have a case capacity as low as 28.0 grains of H2O to a maximum case capacity of 30.6 grains. In Quickload this translates to a 6,000 psi difference in chamber pressure.

I buy bulk once fired Lake City cases and use them in my AR15 rifles and Savage .223 bolt action. I sort the 5.56 cases for my A2 HBAR and bolt action by weight and neck thickness and the rest are not sorted for the AR15 carbine.

Bottom line I would not use mixed brass in any bolt action if you are looking for uniformity and accuracy. And I'm too cheap to buy Lapua brass for my bolt action because I drink too much coffee and at 67 I also have chronologically gifted eyesight so Lake City brass is good enough.

[SCAST65]

Ed,

I have both 'new once fired brass' from my Savage bolt action (That's my 'fire formed' Wolf Gold, Fiocchi, and PMC) in addition to New, not yet fired 223 Wolf Gold, Fiocchi, PMC, that I purchased previously when the AR's were all I had in ~~223~~~ (Actually, the AR's are all 5.56, but, I digress)


On top of that, I have 'a bucket' of used mixed brass, which includes some 223 fired from my AR's, (both new once fired and 'commercial' reloads), some 223 from 'others', as well as mixed 'other' calibers. (Even a small amount of Weatherby brand '300 Weatherby Mag' brass,,, b/c it was sooooo pretty and just laying there for the taking! LOL!!)

I have sorted out all the used LC 223 brass from 'the bucket' and intend on starting with it and some inexpensive Hornady 55gr soft points 'just to get started',,, It will be 'low/medium load' plinkin fodder,,, as the only thing this particular 'batch' of LC has in common is,,, it's LC,,, Age, prior use, etc all varies,,,

This first batch won't be so much for accuracy/development in the Savage as it will be for "Gen Purpose" and/or AR fodder. (Wife doesn't care if she's uber accurate with her AR,,, She's not even concerned if her scope is dialed in perfect or not,,,, She just like's to shoot it!!! LOL!!!)

Yep,,,, Internal capacity of brass varies between manufacturers,,, Definitely not a good idea to used mixed brass with expectations of any kind of uniformity/accuracy,,,,

I do hope to 'eventually evolve' my reloading into load development by using my 'once fired / fire formed' bolt action Savage brass which is sorted by manufacturer/has a known history. That same ammo will (most likely) only be used in the Savage as I'm not really into the AR's any more,,,

I know my posts kind of wander around a lot. I apologize for any confusion, but still appreciate the responses!

Thanks!


if I decide to I have better I know my posts are kind of 'all over the place, and

I reckon this 'plan' will enable me to get my feet wet Again, this ying with 'low My altest plan is
Plan

[SCAST65]

Only 25 cases at a time, or is this a typo, your choice??

FWIW, I counted how many 223's I put in one HF drum tonight,,, Again, just using water-Lemi-Dawn, but 100 went in just fine with 1 - 1 and 1/2 inch between the brass and the seal ring (200 total in my double drum unit).

Is it the 'ultimate combination'? Probably not, but it sure cleans up stuff to where it's nice to (begin to) work with and helps clean the 'general crud' outta the interiors,,,

Most likely will tumble the LC brass I mentioned above again w/media after I de-cap/size,,,

(I also have a universal decapper 'on the way' as well as the SS media, so next go-round will start out a bit different than these first batch's)

Lot's of experimenting to do,,,,,

Good! It will keep me off the streets/outta trouble!!!