What rifle to buy as basis for heavy bullet 7mm mag build

[rsalar]

I am new to Savage rifles --I've never owned one. Now I want to build either a 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm Ultra Mag specifically for Berger 195 EOLs. I need an 1:8 twist barrel so the first thing I will do is change out the barrel. I know where to get the barrel but I don't know which Savage rifle model I should buy to get started. Should I buy a used 110 or would I be better off buying new? (Keeping the cost down is important but I don't want to skimp) Are there just actions available? Which model is my best bet? I hear good things about the accustock -- should I go that way or aftermarket stock (mcMillan / Manners / etc) for best accuracy? Magazine length is important -- but I am having trouble finding out what the maximum COAL is for the long action Savage -- I've seen 3.34" and I've seen 3.69" -- the longer the better for these long bullets. If someone knows the actual max length Id appreciate that info. My Remington 700 LA magazine measures 3.785" long inside and Wyatt makes them that measure 2.865. Are there aftermarket kits or methods or modifications that can be used to increase the maximum length that will feed from a Savage magazine? In summary:

1) New or Used?
2) Which rifle model?
3) Accustock?
4) Mods to increase magazine length?

Thank you in advance,

Ron

[rjtfroggy]

Take a look at this one. Model 116 stainless.

[darkker]

1)Should I buy a used 110 or would I be better off buying new? (Keeping the cost down is important but I don't want to skimp)
2) Are there just actions available?
3) Which model is my best bet?
4) I hear good things about the accustock -- should I go that way or aftermarket stock (mcMillan / Manners / etc) for best accuracy?
5) Magazine length is important -- but I am having trouble finding out what the maximum COAL is for the long action Savage
6) Are there aftermarket kits or methods or modifications that can be used to increase the maximum length that will feed from a Savage magazine?

Holy Schnikeys batman! 1) You want to know if you are "better off" to buy new or used, but want to be cheap....Well do you think you can buy new, or used more cheaply? 2) Yes there are, some of the forum sponsors sell them. 3) The model differences are a matter of "accessories", the fundamental actions are the same. 4) Crap-U-Stock is fine for a hunter, not for what a competitive/serious target shooter would accept. For "Best" accuracy, buy something else. 5) Top left corner of the screen, do the following: Click on the "Home" button/tab. Next slightly lower on the left you will see, under the heading of "Main Menu", click on the "+" next to the Savage FAQ's, then the "Centerfire FAQ". Most of this is covered, but on the third page, last article is discussion of ALL Savage actions. 6) The Savage action is the length it is. Short of cutting and lengthening, which will not be cheap; you won't get much from it. Remington has a long action, and a Magnum action; different birds.

[geargrinder]

Remington has a long action, and a Magnum action; different birds.

This isn't correct. All Remington 700 long actions are the same length. Standard and Magnum actions are exactly the same. The only difference is the feed rails are slightly opened for the RUM's.

Back to the OP....The cheapest and easiest would be to find a used center feed long action magnum.

Probably find an old package 7mm for $200-$300.
Swap on your barrel.
Get a Boyd Pro Varmint that is inletted for factory centerfeed bottom metal. Bed and pillar it. $129 plus shipping/options.
Install Accurate Mag bottom metal. Uses CIP (3.850") length magazines. $185.

You could also go with a chassis system, but they are expensive and tough to find one for longer or CIP length magazines.

[darkker]

This isn't correct. All Remington 700 long actions are the same length. Standard and Magnum actions are exactly the same. The only difference is the feed rails are slightly opened for the RUM's.

Well then, I'll stand corrected on Remington action lengths.

[rsalar]

Holy Schnikeys batman! 1) You want to know if you are "better off" to buy new or used, but want to be cheap....Well do you think you can buy new, or used more cheaply?

I get that used stuff is cheaper than new stuff -- I'm more interested in the quality of Savage workmanship over time. Are the new savage rifles made better today than they were were 5 years ago? Is there any reason why I should pay more for a new rifle than just finding an old beater. Are the old actions basically the same as the new ones, etc, etc? Based on what I am reading I see no reason to buy new... but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something

4) Crap-U-Stock is fine for a hunter, not for what a competitive/serious target shooter would accept. For "Best" accuracy, buy something else.

Good to know -- I've seen raving reviews of the accustock.

5) Top left corner of the screen, do the following: Click on the "Home" button/tab. Next slightly lower on the left you will see, under the heading of "Main Menu", click on the "+" next to the Savage FAQ's, then the "Centerfire FAQ". Most of this is covered, but on the third page, last article is discussion of ALL Savage actions.

Thanks -- some really good info there, but I still couldn't find what the max COAL that will fit in long action magazine is

[rsalar]

Get a Boyd Pro Varmint that is inletted for factory centerfeed bottom metal. Bed and pillar it. $129 plus shipping/options.
Install Accurate Mag bottom metal. Uses CIP (3.850") length magazines. $185.

You could also go with a chassis system, but they are expensive and tough to find one for longer or CIP length magazines.

That's exactly the info I was looking for. I didn't know the longer magazines were called CIP length. I'll check out the Accurate Mag stuff. Sounds like my best bet is to find some old 110 rifle, strip it down to the action, and go aftermarket for everything else. Thanks a lot -- I appreciate the info

[110 7mm BA]

FWIW, my rifle is a 7mm rem mag 110 action fitted to a BA chassis, it has the CIP length mag, I did have to modify the action slightly tho to suit. I bought it like this so not sure on how they sourced the BA chassis for it, the recoil lug has also been modified to suit. It will be fitted with a varmint profile barrel as soon as possible.

[yobuck]

My question would be why 190 gr bullets?
If your thinking is that the higher BC will improve the long range capability of a 7 rem mag, you will be disappointed.
It would be akin to using high test gas in a 6 cylinder Chevy.
It is an excellent cartridge to a point, but you wont be moving the point with higher BC bullets.
Even with the Ultramag, you will find that 162 gr Hornadys or 168 gr Bergers will have a flatter flight path than will the 180 gr Bergers out to 1200 yards. Due to less initial velocity, the 190s will be even worse for flat trajectory.
Frankly when you get to that distance, there are better choices than a 7mm regardless of the bullet you choose.
I am not attempting to discourage you from choosing a 7 mm cartridge. But I am pointing out facts that might change your mind on the action.
I have a long action Rem 700 that started life as a 270 Win. It is now chambered for the 300 Weatherby case necked down to 7mm.
A factory magnum action might be a better and probably end up a cheaper choice however.
The 7mm STW, which was originaly built on the 8 mm mag case, would be a clone as to ballistics.
I can use the standard factory magazine with 162 gr bullets. My rifle has the BDL hinged floorplate on the magazine which allows for 2 rounds plus one in the chamber.
My son bought a magnum ADL model, and he can get 3 in his magazine for a total of 4. Both our stocks are custom, but factory stocks will work even with varmit class barrels.
My velocity using 80 gr 7828 is plus 3350 fps from a 27" barrel with 162s. Weatherby brass is actually Norma, and is very easy to find compared to ultramag brass.
RCBS sells the dies as a standard item, and its simply running the 300 cases thru the 7x300 die with no other steps involved.
We also have several 7mm ultramag Senderos in our camp and they are also a very good gun.
We have found however that the performance is about equal with any of those cartridges, with the 162 to 168 gr bullets being the best all round performers.

[rsalar]

My question would be why 190 gr bullets?
If your thinking is that the higher BC will improve the long range capability of a 7 rem mag, you will be disappointed.
It would be akin to using high test gas in a 6 cylinder Chevy.
It is an excellent cartridge to a point, but you wont be moving the point with higher BC bullets.
Even with the Ultramag, you will find that 162 gr Hornadys or 168 gr Bergers will have a flatter flight path than will the 180 gr Bergers out to 1200 yards. Due to less initial velocity, the 190s will be even worse for flat trajectory.

I do not have actual chronographed data but these numbers I get from Quickload and Applied Ballistics:

From a 26" barrel:

Berger 168 VLD @ 3000 fps -- total drop at 1000 yards 196" -- 10 mph wind 26.7" -- energy 1911
Berger 195 EOL @ 2890 fps -- total drop at 1000 yards 208" -- 10 mph wind 24.5" -- energy 2189
Difference -- 8" more drop, 2" less wind drift, 278 more ft/lbs of energy

Based on Quickloads anyway the 7 RUM doesn't any better when loaded to the same pressure. My plan is to long throat the chamber and load the bullets out as far as possible (3.78 - 3.86 depending on mag) which will give me more case capacity and hopefully more velocity. We'll see...

[yobuck]

Well certainly the Rum wont do any better if loaded to the same pressure as the 7 rem mag.
Your figures show that there is no advantage to the 190 other than a little more energy which isn't really a factor.
You can choose to use published data if you like. But if you talk with people who have actually sat behind these things
and watch them fly over long distances, you will get a different opinion.
Its not a question of being biased one way or another, its simply a fact, and seeing is believing the facts.
You have the same situation regardless of the cartridge you select. Wether its a 7mm, a 30 cal, or even a 338.
There will be an optimum bullet weight for that particular cartridge, (based on the velocity), and not just the BC number.
BC numbers now sells bullets the same as sex sells magazines. Velocity will trump BC to a point, and when you reach that point, stuff in more powder, or get a bigger gun.
Ive frankly never had a magnum cartridge on a Savage action.
If it were me today, and not yesterday, id opt for a 280 AI and then go to at least a 30 cal on a custom action if your looking for max performance.

[toddcdozer]

I've built a slug of mags on the Savage action. The EOL would be the best bullet for a RUM case. I don't care about drop. Wind is EVERYTHING. The 195 will smoke the lighter stuff at 1k+ and will hit harder with a better SD for large game if needed. Don't worry about the model just get the cheapest mag face bolt and roll. You are throwing everything but the action in the trash anyway. I just built a 7SAUM that is throwing 175 ELD-X at 3050 with a 27" tube.