How do you balance the multitude of variables that can be adjusted in reloading? Is there an order of operation in refining a load? Does changing one directly affect any of the others? I have identified the following variables, am I missing any? How important are they relative to each other? I'm just getting back into reloading after about 20 years off, and I wasn't very sophisticated back then.
powder choice
powder charge
primer choice
case overall length
neck tension
seating depth
bullet weight
bullet design
Thanks for the input.
Ron
The best way to think about reloading, especially for me, is when I develop a load, i only change one variable at a time. For example, if may adjust the the powder charge, but leave everything else the same. The powder charge, IMO will have the greatest impact on changing the POI and velocity of the gun. After that, I start working on the other variables to see if it tightens the load up or not.
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
What he said. Also not set in stone but as a general rule your powder charge will control your vertical and your seating controls your horizontal. Always change only one thing at a time.
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32 (New King James Version)
And not just powder, but powder LOT. Same with bullet lots, primers, brass, any of the components. If you buy new components, you'll have to start over on your load development. Not back to the beginning, but you will have to back off the load and work up again. If you measure and seat bullet by Ogive dimension, you may have to re-tune the seat depth with every new lot of bullets.
I had a load using a HPBT go from .020 short of the lands, to .040 into the lands just from a lot change.
Any change is a change, nonetheless.
^There is no such thing as .040" into the lands.^
You are pushing the pill further into the case neck when You close the bolt.
Ever have to eject one without firing it?
JMO...:-)
Good catch, FW. I meant to type ".004 into the lands", but I guess Mssrs. Hunt and Peck got a bit confused and out of sync. LOL
And yes, I did chamber and eject a dummy round, that's how I discovered the error. Did not push the bullet back though, measured the same before and after.
I am starting to do that more often now, as a quality check before committing a bunch of materials to a load development. The wisdom of buying in bulk is starting to sink in...gradually.
Yes.Originally Posted by Firehorse
When you reloaded in the past, did you read the non-data sections of a manual or two? Did you follow their instructions & guidelines? One of the things they all tell you is to back off ~10% (or go back to start loads) when you get a new lot of powder. Or change primer. Or use a military case.
Some even warn explicitly to not use any other data at all except what they've printed. An example of this come from Speer: They warn explicitly to NOT use any other data with their Deep Curl bullets, which are constructed very differently from all other handloading bullets. My own Pressure Trace work confirms this requirement.
Lapua brass, in most headstamps, has less internal volume than most of the cases we typically have in North America (can't speak to other markets). If you're running on the top end of your safe load range already with, say Winchester brass, going to Lapua may well push you into broken parts or wrecked cases (or worse). Different bullets, usually from different manufacturers, have different materials hardness for their bullet cores & jackets, which impacts pressures. The NRA published a bunch of test data on this topic a couple-few decades back, back when the NRA was super helpful to handloaders rather than being primarily a politically-minded organization. Different bullets have different diameters, and depending upon your barrel dimensions, that can affect precision (accuracy) but _can_ also affect speed.
So, have a look through a couple manuals. Read and study the beginning chapters, not just the data tables. It'll bring back the stuff you perhaps used to know but might be a little fuzzy on now. I like Lyman and Speer for this kind of thing, but Hornady's manual is pretty good for this, and the newest Norma manual has some good, interesting sections in it, too.
Good luck, be safe, and have fun!
This could turn into a really long answer as all those variables effect a given load.
A load sbould be developed with a pupose in mind.
First what is the purpose of the rifle?
Long range, all purpose, varmit or punching paper?
Twist rate on the barrel will limit your range off bullet weight.
Projectile choice again is specific to the pupose of the load. There are a lot of good ones.
Brass..buy the best if you can. Nosler, Norma, and Lapua ( Lapua the best in my opinion).
Seating depth will depend on the chamber of your rifle. You can play with length to tune to what your rifle likes. This should be done before tuning your powder load.
I will let the others go into greater detail about your questions.
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^ Welcome to the "Brotherhood" fellow shooter/reloaded :-).^
Hate to take exception to Your statement on Your first post ( but I will anyway :-) ). Many of us in reloading currently agree it is better to find Your loads "Optimum Charge Weight" for the powder being used, then work with seating depth. Now I suppose it can be done the other way around with acceptable results, and maybe it works fine the way You are doing it?
"T 10", I understand completely. My efforts to be mistake free are sorely lacking, and getting worse as time goes by.
The last two years or so, I have had the benefit of observing My BIL's entry into 1,000yd competition reloading and shooting. I'm not going to go into the details that He and his fellow competitors go into to shoot the small groups they do at 1,000yds. Let's just say that everything they do is OCD to the max, and would drive Me out of My mind.
One example, when He gets a hundred Burger Match pills, the Meplats are trimmed and pointed. Then they are sorted out into 5 groups. One of these groups (20%), is only suitable for fowlers.
But where this connects to Your post, some of the groups are the difference in measurement from bullit base to ojive within the same lot and box. So, when some say "I never use COAL measurement " because of inconsent bullet length to tip. Well, guess what, bullet base to ojive ain't perfect either. And My BIL and His buddies put the time in searching for that perfection.
I have a few hundred pills sorted by weight for My 260, but I don't know if I will ever bother with that again? :-(
Ok, now you're going to make me go through that new box of 500 80 grain SMK's and sort them, aren't you?
^ Hey, that ain't nothin, You should hear the whole story! ;-)) ^
Sort by bearing lengthOk, now you're going to make me go through that new box of 500 80 grain SMK's and sort them, aren't you?
For the ultimate bullet sorter
http://www.bulletdoctor.com
I would say start with quality brass and primers (I like CCI BR) and.some good match bullets
During load development accurate powder charges are at their most importance. Start low middle on the recommended powder charges in the reloading manual of your selected powder. Increase powder charge in .3 to .5 grains.
Shoot you OCW looking for that node
When you find your optimum powder charge then it is time to play with seating depth. I think the berger method is a good place to start.
After that.you can fine tune to your hearts content
I think I'll call My BIL! What...You don't have a bullet doctor!? So sad :-((
Wouldn't My Sister love Me for that? ;-))
Thanks for the help. I have the new Lyman, Lee, and Hornady manuals on order. I will mostly be reloading .223 and .308 primarily for steel targets out to 600 yards. Also adapting to California's new ammo purchasing restrictions. Starting next year, all ammo purchases have to go through state licensed ammo dealers, require a background check, and get reported to the state. I expect prices to increase and availability to decrease. I'm shooting an Axis HB in 223 (1:9), and a Model 10 FCP-k (1:10) in .308. I can already tell the model 10 is not fond of 150 grain bullets. Looking at reloading 168 or 175 SMKs. Currently, I have not purchased any equipment. I used to use my dad's set-up, and my brother-in-law has it now so its not available anymore.
This has been a fascinating thread to read. I bought my Juenke comparator somewhere around nine or ten years ago. I would suspect it might have been close to the last of the production. I use it to separate anomalous bullets from the crowd AND group bullets by where they register baseline on the scale. Bullets that swing the needle from edge to edge are rejects. Loading them results in flyers. Not really BAD flyers, but not grouping with the rest of them. I have noted the following:
1. Some bullets are so consistent there seems to be little reason to spin them except for the odd one that might be damaged. Bergers measure 5 or less DUs 99.5 percent of the time. Lapua match bullets are even better.
A box of Bergers that was inadvertently dropped on a concrete floor had several that measured close to 10 DUs. A hummer that was thrown on the floor went up to 10 DUs.
2. Measuring Hornady Amax bullets results usually in three groups that require three distinctly different settings of the 'fine' adjustment knob. Means three distinct groups of bullets. Setting up for a max means doing 25 to 50 bullets to establish a baseline for the groups which I then label as 'left', 'center', or 'right'. A couple of 'hummers' are kept for checking calibration. The bullets are kept separated and used in their groups in turn to maintain consistency within each group.
3. Hornady SST hunting bullets have about 5 to 10 bullets per box that are 5 or less DUs. About 10 to 20 are 5 to 14 DUs The rest are 15 and over with a few that are scale to scale. The hummers give me one hole groups at a hundred. The 15 and over give me slightly larger groups with maybe one just about touching but outside the main hole. I shoot groups of five.
4. 22 size bullets under 55 grain are a bugger to measure. Once the point of measure is set, I must NOT move the adjustable piece that the bullet turns against. It is very difficult to find the same spot again even with help of the baseline bullet.
Regards
Last edited by Nissan_Ranger; 04-04-2014 at 06:56 PM.
The best grouping i ever got was from weight sorting bullets. Same load as before but consistency does make for a better load.
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