Reply With QuoteIf this is a pre owned rifle, someone may have used Loctite or something similar. Try heat, but do not over do.
Stuck Bolt Assembly Screw
Guys,
I need your help. I acquired a Model 111, non-accutrigger, with detachable magazine and am in the process of disassembling it for cleaning. However, try as I might, I cannot get the bolt assembly screw loose. I usually use the "place it upside down with quality 1/4-inch hex key in place and jump on it" method I learned on this site. Up until now, this method has always worked. Not this time, this beastly BAS is on tight! I have looked in the FAQ section, searched past posts, and the Internet for possible suggestions but nothing has worked so far. I've chilled it in the freezer and even tried spraying the propellant from canned air on it (holding the can upside down to spray the liquid propellant onto the BAS to chill it) and then trying my normal method to get it loose. No luck so far.
I'm out of ideas. I guess I could try taking it to my local gunsmith, but I'm not sure what they would do/try that I cannot. I can't be the first person this has happened to. Should I try heat? I know many of you here have disassembled more 110/111s than I will probably ever own, so any and all advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this post and offer up suggestions to get this stubborn BAS loose.
-Aaron
If this is a pre owned rifle, someone may have used Loctite or something similar. Try heat, but do not over do.
I've had a couple that were terribly stuck. I used my impact gun, it got them loose instantly.
I would take it to any mechanic and ask them for a favor to undue it with their impact gun. I hope there are nice enough mechanics out there. Never took a car to one so I don't know.
What Zero333 said.
Always good to have friends who get their hands dirty and own tools!
You might try putting it on the bench with the wrench in place like you would on the floor.
I put a towel down to avoid marks
If you have a comp cast hammer you can just smack. Rubber hammer may work as well.
Wood block and a steel hammer.
You can try adding heat but be careful. Temple stick temp crayon form a welding shop would be a good idea (300 deg)
Impact wrench you still need to secure the bolt, it certainly will break things loose other methods will not.
I just took one apart last night. I did the old put it on the carpeted living room floor and apply all my weight and bounce on it trick. Haha
I have a cordless ryobi impact driver that I was going to try next possibly.
Let us know what you decide.
I use an impact, but I have used the Redman thick also
Guys,
Thank you all for the responses. I had not thought of the impact driver/wrench idea. Also, thanks for the temple stick trick if opt for trying heat. These ideas are great. I knew I could count on all of you. I'm going to take a break from it tonight and go at it tomorrow after work. I'll keep you posted on what solves this problem.
Another trick I learned as a Master Tech was to actually turn it clockwise a few degrees. While this does "tighten" the screw, it can actually break the seizing action that loctite, or rust/corrosion can produce. It's easier to shear that bond by tightening first. Not much! You only need turn clockwise a few degrees, then loosen it. Was always a good trick for seized lug nuts.
Valid, one of those lessons I remember only under extemis. Still hate to do it.
I do think if the OP will smack it with a hammer that might well do it.
I am not allowed to jump up and down so never tried the floor thing, but I did all sorts of other monkey motions.
Mine was extremely glued tight, so I got it where the bolt handle had it raised off the bench with the hex wrench making the other leg and smacked it with my rubber hammer and it broke right loose.
Try the easy stuff (ie not having to go get temple stick) or an impact wrench first then escalate only if that fails.
My brother tells me the battery powered impacts are extremely powerful these day.
I still have my air impact but my wife bought that for b day one year
With a impact gun I just hold the bolt in one hand and the gun in the other, so the bolt doesn't need to be secured. The impact gun is a funny tool. It works back and forth, hence why it will not rip the bolt out of the hand.Originally Posted by RC20
I've only had to use it 2 times on Savage bolts, otherwise I just set them on the carpeted floor and use a allen wrench.
No luck yet.Again, thank you all for the suggestions. So far I have tried placing the bolt on the bench with it raised off the bench by the handle with the hex wrench making the other leg (as shown in the link provided by Mr. Furious) and smacked it a few times with my rubber hammer. Didn't budge. Then I tried placing the bolt in the same position except on the carpeted floor and jumping on it. Then I tried smacking it with rubber mallet while it was on the floor. No dice. Then I tried Dave Hobach's suggestion if trying to turn it slightly clockwise to possibly break free what ever might be seizing it. Then I repeated the process on the bench with the rubber mallet and the floor jumping on it. No go. I do not have an impact wrench but I think I may be able to get access to one through a co-worker tomorrow to try what redman, keeki, RC20, and Zero333 all suggested. If I can't get hold of one, I will look into possibly buying one. If that doesn't work, I'll try the temple stick and heat option this weekend.
Honestly, I'm beginning to feel a little like a cream-puff here. Never had an inanimate object kick my a** like this before.Guess turning 50 this year is a bigger deal than I thought. LOL!
Man, that is one seriously locked in sucker.
It just occurred to me you could use a shop press if you have acccess, same as with the hammer but a wooden block on top.
If you do the impact wrench it has to be supported well, what makes an impact work in that case if no movement of the object.
Wooden boards and squeeze it in the vice using the handle as the counter to torque.
Heat may discolor the finish but at that point its what the heck. I would think the older blue vs the new not so shiny would be more at risk, that's a guess.
I might be temped to use a sledge hammer with a good block over the top.
Also possible to break the hex wrench thought its a good sized one. Pretty cheap.
The adaptor for the hex on the impact is gong to cost a bit.
Do you have a vice? Clamp that handle in the jaws and then use a breaker bar on the hex wrench. Something will happen...
Have you tried soaking it in penetrating oil, diesel or breakfree or something like that? 50/50 acetone and ATF is a great penetrating oil, just don't store it.
Bill
I had thought about that and forgot to post, not sure it will break loose lock tite
Another thought, if you have a BBQ get it up to 300 degrees.
Issue of course is the oil inside the bolt will smoke.
The following I believe is ill advised as something is likely to break, probably the hex but it can be painful or worse when fragments fly.
At best approached very carefully and quit as things start to bend. You can take a large combo wrench and turn it into a breaker bar, that keeps the force on the hex wrench and not the socket. I have broken hexes out of sockets before. They just do not lock them in that well (often with just a pin)
Do you have a vice? Clamp that handle in the jaws and then use a breaker bar on the hex wrench. Something will happen..
^^^^I'm not going to get into a tit for tat, but whatever happened to common sense? seems it's not so common.
There are other less direct methods that might be worth trying however at the cost of replacing parts.
I think we are just having an open discussion here with pro and con of methods and what to look out for.
Not sure how it would be interpreted differently but that is how I feel.
I have taken apart a few that are tough as all get out.. Soak for awhile in some penetrating oil, then give it ago.. I have never had to or tried the put it on the floor and bounce on it, always gotten them loose by hand... I have never figured out why they are so stinking tight but man they are...
Try this... I'll let the pics do the talking...
Instead of a hammer, I would first try a 2 foot long 2x4 because the crack it emits when striking the bolt will generate a vibration that might loosen the bolt. Then move onto a hammer.
Good luck.
You know, if it is that difficult, I might just try shooting carb cleaner in the holes on the bolt then blow out with compressed air and oil. Might not be worth the effort if you end up breaking something just to get it apart. Do you really need to get it apart? I would have tried my Dewalt 1/4" impact driver and if that didn't do it, might just leave it alone.
Rosewood
Ok, you can't give up, we are vested in this.
I am would say a block of wood on top if you use a steel hammer. Also just an L leg hex but that's the basic idea.
Compo cast hammer (and everyone should have one so its your chance to get one) just the cloth would do.
Me I hate having something I can't get into and clean, ok when new, over time it does need it.
SUCCESS!!!
I apologize for the long pause in this thread. It took some time on my end to be able to implement most of your suggestions. I took Bsekf's and MTHunt's advice and let the end of the BAS sit in some penetrating oil for a couple of days. Tried my previously detailed routine and had no luck getting it free. Then I got ahold of an acquaintance with a machine shop and went to his place. We place the bolt vertically in a heavy duty vise had mounted to a cast iron shop table. Then went at it with an impact driver. Initially, no luck. Then we got out the 300 degree temp crayon and a propane torch. I began heating it up to temp and when we got close to 300 degrees we started in on it again with the impact driver. It took 8 minutes of using the impact driver combined with reheating it and working on it with a 1/4 socket and cheater bar to finally break it free.
Surprisingly, the threads of the BAS were in perfect shape. There was no evidence of damage or loc-tite or some other adhesive as I've seen on other bolt assembly screws when I've disassembled bolts. There was some slight rounding and damage to the socket head of the BAS, but I can contact savage for a replacement so it's not an issue.
Thank you to everyone who responded to this thread. I very much appreciate all of your time in writing replies and your advice. Without it, I'm sure I would not have gotten this beastly BAS free. All in all, this was a good learning opportunity and I really can't complain as I picked this rifle up for a song at a local pawn shop. Thanks again to all of you for your advice. This forum/board has a great bunch of members who are incredibly knowledgeable and willing to share that knowledge! While I have not posted very frequently, every time I have members have always helped me out. I hope I can pay some of what I've learned here forward to others.
Wildcat
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