Where are all these 1/2MOA Savages coming from?

[DonB]

I have an Axis II in .223, a Model 116 .300 win mag and a Model 112 in .338 Lapua that all shoot under 1/2 MOA with my developed hand loads. The Lapua is the leader of the pack by far. It shoots a .195 group at 100yds and holds a .25 MOA group at 1000yds. Had my grandson try the 1000yd milk jug challange with it and he succeeded with his first shot. I've shot lots of different rifles over the years because of my work, but I sure am glad I discovered Savage.

[65Whelen]

I have only had a sample size of three but all three were 2MOA+ guns with 5 shot groups from the bench on sand bags (front and back of stock). Two of the three were closer to 3MOA.

This is with stock rifles in:
-Axis 243
-16 in 270WSM

And a stock rifle with a bedded synthetic stock:
-110E in 270

I will give them that the triggers were great after adjustments, but accuracy was nothing to write home about (i.e. I've had more accurate rifles). So I guess my question is, where are all these 0.5MOA out of the box Savages I read about on the internet coming from? I wonder if maybe they're referring to one lucky 3 shot group out of several. That wouldn't be a surprise, but a consistent 0.5MOA? I've never seen it in a Savage. I like the concept of Savage. They're sturdy and easy to upgrade, but I'm talking about stock Savages. It seems from the ones I've owned 2MOA is what can be expected (at least in most cases). Am I wrong?

Got mine off of Gunbroker. Bought a Savage 12 VPL 22-250. With reloads it shot a 1/3 MOA and averaged 5/8 MOA before I swapped the barrels to a 65 Creedmoor. And after some load development, this last weekend got my first "one ragged hole". Neither barrels shot moa with factory ammo but with some tweaking and load development, looking good.

[want2ride]

I have 2 that can shoot 1/2" with my brother shooting, 3/4 when I am. 10T and LRP both in 6.5 Creedmoor.

I also have a 1" 300 WSM 116 and a 1" 25 06 Axis and a 1.5" 7mm08 Axis. I am convinced that both of the axis can be better with a better trigger, even with the spring trimmed the creep is holding me back from great groups.... consistently.

[rckendall]

Am I wrong?

Holy cow, you must have gotten a lemon or two. Or maybe you are just shooting cheap ammo? I just started shooting my first Savage, a 12FV in 223. Right out of the box it is shooting 5/8" five shot groups using Black Hills remanufactured 68 gn ammo. Today with some hand loads, it again shot a 5/8" five shot string and a string at under 1/2", but it was only three shots, so I'm not counting that one yet. But, I'll do more testing with that load next week.

I have a Harris bipod on mine and mostly shooting in prone position. These are great little guns!

Richard

[rckendall]

I have only had a sample size of three but all three were 2MOA+ guns with 5 shot groups from the bench on sand bags (front and back of stock). Two of the three were closer to 3MOA.

This is with stock rifles in:
-Axis 243
-16 in 270WSM

And a stock rifle with a bedded synthetic stock:
-110E in 270

I will give them that the triggers were great after adjustments, but accuracy was nothing to write home about (i.e. I've had more accurate rifles). So I guess my question is, where are all these 0.5MOA out of the box Savages I read about on the internet coming from? I wonder if maybe they're referring to one lucky 3 shot group out of several. That wouldn't be a surprise, but a consistent 0.5MOA? I've never seen it in a Savage. I like the concept of Savage. They're sturdy and easy to upgrade, but I'm talking about stock Savages. It seems from the ones I've owned 2MOA is what can be expected (at least in most cases). Am I wrong?

Here is an update on my rifle, a 12FV in 223 from Cabelas. I am hand loading 69 grain SMK over IMR 8208 powder. This is a 1/4" group and the one just prior to this one was 1/2". These are great little rifles!

Richard

5 shot group

[Erik_J]

Here is an update on my rifle, a 12FV in 223 from Cabelas. I am hand loading 69 grain SMK over IMR 8208 powder. This is a 1/4" group and the one just prior to this one was 1/2". These are great little rifles!

Richard

Richard, how much powder did you use for that group? I just bought my 1st jug of 8208 to try with my 12FV and cache of 69gr SMKs. PM me if you don't want to post in public.

Thanks!

[deerhunter99]

Well my 116 weather warrior 6.5x284 norma is deadly accurate !!!

[Rackfreak210]

X2!


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[rckendall]

Erik, I don't mind sharing at all. I wasn't sure anybody was even looking at these posts with interest. I have been testing with 23.6, 23.7 and 23.8 grains of IMR 8208, loaded at mag length. This one was 23.8 grains, which is about max according to one of my manuals. I saw early on that this load had good potential, so I called Sierra to get current info from them. I was assured that I could go a little higher in my testing, but found that the accuracy fell off above this. So, this is where I will load until something changes.

Richard

edited to add: I am using Lake City brass and Remington 7 1/2 primers. I tried CCI 400 and they cratered heavily.

[Fotheringill]

1. shooter
2. handloads and the related charge, speed, seating depth and bullet
3. wind
4. model, twist and barrel and trigger
5. maintenance and gun improvements, i.e bedding
6. telling the truth

Don't cherry pick targets for display and posting. Be honest. I doubt whether anyone will denigrate someone's poorer shooting or think less of the shooter. If they do, F 'em.

As stated above, trial and error will get you to the end of the road, maybe before you need a new barrel and have to start all over again and maybe not.

[want2ride]

Put 5 five shot groups on one target and average them. That is pretty much representative of the accuracy of that rifle.

The more shots the more representative of the statistical norm

I figure if you can shoot 3 out of 4 groups under 1/2" then you have a 1/2 inch gun. I figure I am throwing the 4th out of the range and not the gun. Since I last posted I finally got my LRP broke in and whether it was me or the gun, I am now under 1/2 by my measure where I was 3/4" a month ago.

[Erik_J]

Thanks, Richard! Your info gives me a good starting place, given we have the same rifle. I am using Lapua cases (1st time) so I'll start at the lower end and work up.

Erik, I don't mind sharing at all. I wasn't sure anybody was even looking at these posts with interest. I have been testing with 23.6, 23.7 and 23.8 grains of IMR 8208, loaded at mag length. This one was 23.8 grains, which is about max according to one of my manuals. I saw early on that this load had good potential, so I called Sierra to get current info from them. I was assured that I could go a little higher in my testing, but found that the accuracy fell off above this. So, this is where I will load until something changes.

Richard

edited to add: I am using Lake City brass and Remington 7 1/2 primers. I tried CCI 400 and they cratered heavily.

[rckendall]

1. shooter
2. handloads and the related charge, speed, seating depth and bullet
3. wind
4. model, twist and barrel and trigger
5. maintenance and gun improvements, i.e bedding
6. telling the truth

Don't cherry pick targets for display and posting. Be honest. I doubt whether anyone will denigrate someone's poorer shooting or think less of the shooter. If they do, F 'em.

As stated above, trial and error will get you to the end of the road, maybe before you need a new barrel and have to start all over again and maybe not.

Years ago while taking a photography class, the instructor told us that if you want to be a better photographer, stop showing your bad pictures! So this came to mind with the comment about cherry picking targets to show. Yeah, I get that. But as I have been working up loads that suit the rifle, a few good groups have come along, all in the 23.6 to 23.8 grain range. Of the three in the photo, the worst is about 9/16", two are 1/2", and the real good one is 1/4".

So, I'll stand by my claim that I have a 1/2", box stock Savage rifle. Yes I have a bipod and a scope, but that is standard equipment I think.



Richard

[CBryars2]

Just tested Lapua Brass on Stealth 6.5, 2 5 shot groups .48 & .56, control was my std Hornady brass, 130 gr Berger OTM with 40 gr H4350 - it shot .58. That is with a new suppressor, so still tuning. Prior to suppressor, 1/2 was normal for the rifle. Stealth 300 WM - smallest group .29 at 200. Only Stealth I have that is not 1/2" yet is 338 Lapua. Still working that one up. The suppressor appears to have changed the harmonics so having to tweek some loads.

All are pretty much stock, changes to Luth MBA 3 or MBA 1 depending on rifle. Break-in was Tubb Final Finish.

[Palmaris]

Yesterday. 2 shots, Hornady 147 Grains ELDM

[curly84]

These are not your grandfather's savages these are THE Next Generation!



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[Idaho]

777, I had the same problem. Tried reloading to find the load that the rifle liked. The factory tube was a POS. I tried factory "Match" ammo, all manuf. Handloads with different bullets, weights and powders and charges. Finally gave up on the original barrel and put a McGowan 26 inch varmint barrel with an 8 twist and had the action bedded at the same time. It is now the tack driver that I wanted.

In the process of getting to this point I've learned a LOT about reloading. It is not as simple as running brass through the dies and seating bullets but that is for another page on here.

I was very unhappy with Savage out of the box accuracy. Now, if I ever buy another one, I will just resign myself to the fact that it may take a LOT of work to get the accuracy that I want from a new gun. In fact, with the money that I've spent on this thing, it may be better to go with a custom gun right off the bat.

[davinman]

.5 MOA with a new Savage, no problem. I have a 12FV in 308 win that shoots 5 shots into 1/2" regularly @ 100 yds, in fact it will shoot 3 shots into 1/2" at 200 yds. I also have a 12FV in 223 that shoots between 1/4"-1/2" 5 shot groups all the time with 3 diff loads, and we're talking about a 400 dollar gun no mods just a decent vortex viper scope. I can post pics for the non believers out there. Let me tell you, these Savage rifles do shoot great!

[dwayne.james.10]

12LRP today with two different Hornady Ammo




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[m12lrs]

I believe the definition of "Half Inch Gun" varies among shooters

For me 5 five shot groups on the same target. Score (including the so called flyers) and average. Pretty good representation of average group size

What is yours?

[dwayne.james.10]

I will shoot 5 shots groups on my next outing. I only shoots 5 shots groups with my Sako and Tikka.


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