Where are all these 1/2MOA Savages coming from?

[m12lrs]

Maybe it's just me but 5 shot groups are for heavy barrel rifles not a sporter contoured hunting rifle.

I can certainly agree with that. In that case give the barrel plenty of.time to cool between shots and shoot a 10 shot group and.you can get a pretty good idea of its consistency

[RC20]

Maybe we need a thin barrel Savage Forum!

Please note that the gun I am shooting the thins on is the same one that I shot a 1/4 inch group with, not to mention a 9 shot 5/8 inch group.

I may not be as good as some, but I am not bad either.

I do plan on going back to the 30-06 thin and 270. But if its a good barrel a FACTOR load should shoot 1.25 to 1.5 3 shot all when the barrel is kept cool.

If my clunky Ruger could do it 20 years ago, this should now.

I sure as hell should shoot with decent to danged good hand loads. 270 I know can be finicky and not surprised, but 30--06? Nahh

Yes RC20 and this is the thin barrel Savages I've experienced. The 270WSM was a stainless. Not impressed with any. I shouldn't be that harsh... 2MOA is more than good enough for a hunting rifle which is what most are after. But I'm talking target shooting. There's nothing to brag about in that category with a 2MOA rifle.

I guess that would lead me to think that the thin barrels are just not what I'm after and I'm probably looking for an action to build on.

My accurate shooter (only own one) happens to be a super thick bull barrel. I've never owned anything thin that would shoot. But... that's only been my experience. Sounds like others have had better luck with thin barrels.

[bowfishn]

The 30-06 Sako Finnbear that I inherited off my father back in the late 70's when I was working up loads for it shot 5 shots in a 1/2" if I did my part. After I got it from my Dad about 4 years ago, it would not do better than 1.5" . I checked to see if the barrel was still free floating, inspected the crown to see some wear on one side of the rifling because my father always cleaned from muzzle end without a guide. I contacted a Gun Smith who said he would install a muzzle brake as well as recrown for $80.00 more than just crowning it. (he was a friend of a friend) I got it back and it shot 2.5" groups and larger. I removed the muzzle brake and it was back to almost 1.5". I recrowned it myself and glass bedded the action and it was again shooting 5 shots in 1/2" at 100 yards. That's not to say I have had bad days at the range and only shot 5 into 3/4 to 7/8 you know 3 or 4 tight and 1 or 2 out a bit. But the next time I go it is shooting 1/2" again so I know it was me.

[RC20]

Dang, I had one from the 60s , very low SN and sold it.

Always was sorry I did not work harder on it to see if I could get loads going for it.

My take was my shooting, never liked the trigger but I think I would have adjusted.

[big honkin jeep]

Oh RC don't pay any mind to an old mans ramblings. I wouldn't know anything about brass tacks.
I wouldn't know anything about barrel profiles in multiple lengths or calibers.
I wouldn't know anything about a rifle that's not a Savage.
I wouldn't know anything about a Savage.
I wouldn't know anything about rifles that range in age from the 1800s to 2016, and I darn sure wouldn't know about the different action styles.
I also wouldn't know anything about how any of em shoot or how different loads might affect accuracy.
I read on the internet guns and ammunition are dangerous

PS. I have also read on the internet that a .308 diameter 125gr can do very well indeed in the right 1-10 twist barreled rifle, but that some otherwise extraordinary rifles just don't like certain loads. But I wouldn't know.
I'm just here for the conversation.

[Damon555]

It's a very simple, 2 word answer...."The internet".....Have you ever noticed that many pictures never show the whole target?

[Wide Glide]

Buying a good rifle to begin with goes a long way... would I expect an axis with Tupperware stock and cheap mounts/ optic and pencil barrel to do .5 reliably? He'll no
My 10 and 110 fcp-hs have been reliable .5 occasional .2 with full load workup. Stable barrel temp from shot to shot and amount of time a round sit in the chamber heating the powder also makes a difference. It took allot of rounds down range and allot of time at the reloading bench to realize that though. Also when I say full load workup I mean full load workup not trying 5 loads and picking the best I'm talking 2-3 powders 5-10 charge weights each then seating depths from 0.050 off the lands to 0.010 into the lands.

I could probably skip allot of that with a more expensive rifle but the cheaper the rifle the more milking it takes to shrink groups. This is why I don't shoot barrel burner calibers. I'd have the barrel shot out before I found the load I was after. For what I spent on components doing load development for 2 rifles with a target load and hunting load for each it would have probably bought another short action or aftermarket barrel.

My .338 lapua is the only savage I have that I'm not reliably getting better than .5 with. It's currently doing about .85 but only has about 100 down the tube. Haven't done a load workup for it because I haven't figured out how much barrel life I'm willing to sacrifice doing load workup.

Load workup is the fun part for me. After you find the right load for each it gets boring and I end up buying/assembling a new one. I joined here when I was selling my remington 700 and buying my first savage, it hasn't been long but I went from no savages to 6 since then and I've got another action and xcaliber barrel on the way lol.

[justinp61]

I have a mdl 16 in 260 remington and the best it's shot is about 7/8". I'm still working on loads and powders. It's plenty good for deer but after shooting my mdl 12 FVSS in 22-250 it's a downer.

[foxx]

I must be one of those lyin' internet braggarts, 'cuz I have owned dozens of Savage 10's and 110's and Axis including factory sporter and vrtmint contours and stocks, aftermarket stocks, Accustocks and plastic factory stocks, custom barrels of all dimensions. I buy new and used. I pillar and bed my own wood stocks when necessary and only use hand loads. All of them shoot .75MOA or better CONSISTENTLY. Most of them 1/2 MOA (I do not / did not get to shoot them all beyond 100 yards). I am talking 5 shot groups, not necessarily shot in rapid order. I NEVER expect a sporter barrel to shoot well for more than 2 shots without letting it cool down for several minutes. When testing, I shoot off sandbags and use quality scopes and levels (anti-cante devices). I have never failed to make one shoot at least 75MOA at 100 yards without much difficulty.

That list includes .223, 22-250, .243, 6BR, 25-06, .260, .260AI, .270WSM, 30-06, 308 and 450BM and others I am sure I just can't remember.

[Mountain Man]

The 30-06 Sako Finnbear that I inherited off my father back in the late 70's when I was working up loads for it shot 5 shots in a 1/2" if I did my part. After I got it from my Dad about 4 years ago, it would not do better than 1.5" . I checked to see if the barrel was still free floating, inspected the crown to see some wear on one side of the rifling because my father always cleaned from muzzle end without a guide. I contacted a Gun Smith who said he would install a muzzle brake as well as recrown for $80.00 more than just crowning it. (he was a friend of a friend) I got it back and it shot 2.5" groups and larger. I removed the muzzle brake and it was back to almost 1.5". I recrowned it myself and glass bedded the action and it was again shooting 5 shots in 1/2" at 100 yards. That's not to say I have had bad days at the range and only shot 5 into 3/4 to 7/8 you know 3 or 4 tight and 1 or 2 out a bit. But the next time I go it is shooting 1/2" again so I know it was me.

Yup. Some brakes just don't work. My 20" AR goes from 1.1~" groups @ 150yds with the flash hider off to over 3" with the birdcage installed. I know refer to it as a thread protector and spray painted it bright yellow so I remember to remove it when I get out of the truck. (It rides with me everywhere muzzle down in the front seat)

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[Mountain Man]

Oh RC don't pay any mind to an old mans ramblings. I wouldn't know anything about brass tacks.
I wouldn't know anything about barrel profiles in multiple lengths or calibers.
I wouldn't know anything about a rifle that's not a Savage.
I wouldn't know anything about a Savage.
I wouldn't know anything about rifles that range in age from the 1800s to 2016, and I darn sure wouldn't know about the different action styles.
I also wouldn't know anything about how any of em shoot or how different loads might affect accuracy.
I read on the internet guns and ammunition are dangerous

PS. I have also read on the internet that a .308 diameter 125gr can do very well indeed in the right 1-10 twist barreled rifle, but that some otherwise extraordinary rifles just don't like certain loads. But I wouldn't know.
I'm just here for the conversation.

Fully agree, I put some 90gr 30 carb bullets in the 06' a few years ago @ nearly 4000fps and it shot as well as the 180s. I stopped using them because they detonate on contact with a blade of grass and I didn't want to burn out a sentimental barrel from Dad.

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[milky7272]

This is my stock savage lrp in 6.5 creedmor. I'm not a very good shot, I have owned Remington's all my life but I now own a stealth an lrp and a 110fcp in 338 lapua and savage is putting out some serious shooting rifles.


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[RC20]

I would say you have potential! Get us 5 and we will know for sure.

[RC20]

the key is you work up loads. Just out of the box with even standard hand loads not factory previous good loads, maybe not so much.

I must be one of those lyin' internet braggarts, 'cuz I have owned dozens of Savage 10's and 110's and Axis including factory sporter and vrtmint contours and stocks, aftermarket stocks, Accustocks and plastic factory stocks, custom barrels of all dimensions. I buy new and used. I pillar and bed my own wood stocks when necessary and only use hand loads. All of them shoot .75MOA or better CONSISTENTLY. Most of them 1/2 MOA (I do not / did not get to shoot them all beyond 100 yards). I am talking 5 shot groups, not necessarily shot in rapid order. I NEVER expect a sporter barrel to shoot well for more than 2 shots without letting it cool down for several minutes. When testing, I shoot off sandbags and use quality scopes and levels (anti-cante devices). I have never failed to make one shoot at least 75MOA at 100 yards without much difficulty.

That list includes .223, 22-250, .243, 6BR, 25-06, .260, .260AI, .270WSM, 30-06, 308 and 450BM and others I am sure I just can't remember.

[RC20]

Well I look forward to the day I get so good I am bored.

I go along pretty well with the rest. My getting up to speed and finding loads takes too many rounds for a barrel burner.

Pretty much the same on load work up now, I pick a range )(low or high) and I know if the powder will shoot its going to be one down lower and one up higher.

then I run them until I find one that seems to print good and then work with COAL.

Usually I run .3 increments, that's close enough that even if I should miss a node its going to be decently accurate on one side or the other and then the next round narrows it down.

I have enough information on COAL that I know where to at least start with that.

Buying a good rifle to begin with goes a long way... would I expect an axis with Tupperware stock and cheap mounts/ optic and pencil barrel to do .5 reliably? He'll no
My 10 and 110 fcp-hs have been reliable .5 occasional .2 with full load workup. Stable barrel temp from shot to shot and amount of time a round sit in the chamber heating the powder also makes a difference. It took allot of rounds down range and allot of time at the reloading bench to realize that though. Also when I say full load workup I mean full load workup not trying 5 loads and picking the best I'm talking 2-3 powders 5-10 charge weights each then seating depths from 0.050 off the lands to 0.010 into the lands.

I could probably skip allot of that with a more expensive rifle but the cheaper the rifle the more milking it takes to shrink groups. This is why I don't shoot barrel burner calibers. I'd have the barrel shot out before I found the load I was after. For what I spent on components doing load development for 2 rifles with a target load and hunting load for each it would have probably bought another short action or aftermarket barrel.

My .338 lapua is the only savage I have that I'm not reliably getting better than .5 with. It's currently doing about .85 but only has about 100 down the tube. Haven't done a load workup for it because I haven't figured out how much barrel life I'm willing to sacrifice doing load workup.

Load workup is the fun part for me. After you find the right load for each it gets boring and I end up buying/assembling a new one. I joined here when I was selling my remington 700 and buying my first savage, it hasn't been long but I went from no savages to 6 since then and I've got another action and xcaliber barrel on the way lol.

[Wide Glide]

I would say you have potential! Get us 5 and we will know for sure.

5 shot groups are over rated. if your going for bragging rights sure a 5 shot group is good sportsmanship but for just shooting groups to practice or doing load development 3 shots is more the norm. half the time when you have people posting 5 shot groups they are calling anything that makes the group bigger a flier without re shooting the flyer.


take this photo for instance. its from recent load development. i aimed at the bullseye the first 3 then immediatly aimed to the right point of the diamond for another 3 and then the top point of the diamond for another three. if you were to stack the points of aim and the groups you could see that the group would still be under .5 for the first 6 shots then opens on the last as the barrel heats up. is there a better way to post photos?

[WV1951]

We have read on here before that someone got a lemon, and after sending it to Savage, it turned out to be a lemon. It does happen. With that said, I find it difficult to believe that 3 of them would be lemons. There are so many load variances, that to give up so easily, does not do the rifles justice. I am a beginner, and was shocked at the difference in various ammo. Strictly going the factory route, my 12FV, just does not like 55's, 62's, and not crazy about 50-55's. But 68-69ers is a different story. Not always true, but generally, price =consistency. To the op. You may have to try a dozen different factory loads/brands, or a dozen hand load combinations, but I am sure you will find a consistent sub moa round. Yea, the sporter barrel does make it frustrating in trying different loads.

[toddcdozer]

No pencil barrel rigs shoot .5 MOA reliably unless they are full customs and even then it's a crap shoot. Take an average Savage heavy barrel rig in an accurate and easier to shoot caliber such as a Creed 223 or 243 and many of them will shoot .5 MOA with handloads. Almost all of them will with bedding, action screw tuning and handlapping the lugs, recoil lug, nut and face. EVERY Savage action has the capability to go .5 MOA with a real barrel, stock, recoil lug, trigger and some tuning/at home squaring. If an action won't get there it is probably a warranty issue that Savage will fix. Thin barrel 270 WSMs aren't exactly PPCs.

[foxx]

^^^I agree, except sporter barrels can be just as accurate and reliable as a heavy barrel. There is no reason it shouldn't be and my own experience proves it. It's simply a matter of finding the right load and bullet combination, assuming all of your shots are from a cold bore. Heck, I have a Savage 25-06 factory sporter that I have put as many as 25 shots at 100 yards inside a group you can cover with a quarter. That may not be .5MOA, but it's dang good, and not all that difficult.

[big honkin jeep]

They aint gonna listen Foxx. Too much internet between the ears. LOL

[Wide Glide]

^^^I agree, except sporter barrels can be just as accurate and reliable as a heavy barrel. There is no reason it shouldn't be and my own experience proves it. It's simply a matter of finding the right load and bullet combination, assuming all of your shots are from a cold bore. Heck, I have a Savage 25-06 factory sporter that I have put as many as 25 shots at 100 yards inside a group you can cover with a quarter. That may not be .5MOA, but it's dang good, and not all that difficult.

Exactly key words cold bore. That is the reason you don't see many sporters shooting groups or taking on pdog towns. When you need one true shot to harvest an animal and go home they are great. When shooting groups or taking on dog towns where you want to take multiple shots one after another there is a reason they are using heavy barrels. That's where the difference between sporter vs varmint vs bull start to show.

They may all be half moa rifles when you have all day to only shoot cold bore but when you start trying to send them down range one after another you see that after just a few shots the sporter is well on its way to a 1moa rifle. After 10 or so rds you start to see the varmint barrel following suite and soon enough the bull follows. As that barrels heats up you also have less and less time before the hot chamber starts heating the powder to different degrees depending on how long you let the round cook in the chamber hurting accuracy.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying sporters are junk or anything like that just that they are out of their element when expected to hold their own against heavy barrels at the range for more than a couple shots at a time. Although you CAN use the same rifle to shoot groups, hunt rabbits, and buffalo it's just not optimal.

Hunting deer sized or bigger game or hiking with a rifle gimme the sporter any day but for anything else there is a better tool for me to use for the job. I wished I still had a sporter today after putting a few miles on the boots hauling a 26" varmint barrel around. The 10 fcp-hs rifles shoot like dream but are a nightmare to carry

[Wide Glide]

Those are just my opinions BTW. I don't claim to be any sort of expert because I'm not so none of the above is ment to be argumentative

[Mountain Man]

Exactly key words cold bore. That is the reason you don't see many sporters shooting groups or taking on pdog towns. When you need one true shot to harvest an animal and go home they are great. When shooting groups or taking on dog towns where you want to take multiple shots one after another there is a reason they are using heavy barrels. That's where the difference between sporter vs varmint vs bull start to show.

They may all be half moa rifles when you have all day to only shoot cold bore but when you start trying to send them down range one after another you see that after just a few shots the sporter is well on its way to a 1moa rifle. After 10 or so rds you start to see the varmint barrel following suite and soon enough the bull follows. As that barrels heats up you also have less and less time before the hot chamber starts heating the powder to different degrees depending on how long you let the round cook in the chamber hurting accuracy.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying sporters are junk or anything like that just that they are out of their element when expected to hold their own against heavy barrels at the range for more than a couple shots at a time. Although you CAN use the same rifle to shoot groups, hunt rabbits, and buffalo it's just not optimal.

Hunting deer sized or bigger game or hiking with a rifle gimme the sporter any day but for anything else there is a better tool for me to use for the job. I wished I still had a sporter today after putting a few miles on the boots hauling a 26" varmint barrel around. The 10 fcp-hs rifles shoot like dream but are a nightmare to carry

Very valid points. I think the big issue is people buy a gun they will end up pulling the trigger maybe 5x a year on whitetails but they need to sight it in. Unless they happen to be really patient, they put up a pallet sized piece of cardboard @ 50 yards then blast 5-10rds making big adjustments until they get close to zero, then move to 100yd for the old "inch high at 100" deer rifle zero. At this point the barrel is warm if not hot (especially if they are sighting in during late summer before deer season) and they start making fine adjustments but they don't seem to correlate with where the bullets are landing. Frustrated, they hand the rifle to their expert buddy who trys his best but still only manages a 3" group. The two of them then light their Marlboros off the glowing barrel and start trash talking the rifle while the barrel sets the dry grass on fire.

The next time the two go out, the rifle shoots a 1" 3 shot group without issue.

Seen it a hundred times at the farm.....

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[jwrowland77]

It's amazing what reloads can do.

I have a Savage Axis Heavy barrel in .223 that I shoot in F-Class matches every now and then. I do fairly well with it.


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[10ring1]

I have a new model 12 lrp in 6.5 cm that is very heavy but with 120 amax factory or a few reloads is an honest half moa gun.

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