Where are all these 1/2MOA Savages coming from?

[CarlosDJackal]

As someone who have been in this game longer than I have been alive, you should understand that there is a huge difference between a rifle/ammo combination that is capable of sub-MOA performance versus the same for a rifle system (rifle, ammo, scope, bipod/rest, shooter, etc.). The original poster was somewhat puzzled why his system seemed incapable of such performance.

I've already proven on multiple occasions that my rifles are capable of such performance as long as the rest of the system cooperate. This includes my ability to read the wind and break the shot without disturbing my sight picture. Back when I was reloading my own ammo and shooting at least 200-rounds every weekend, my Savage 110FP Tactical, housed in a Choate "Utlimate Sniper" stock, using a Harris 6-9" BR bipod, topped with an SWFA 10x42M scope; I would consistently print 3 and 5-shot groups that hovered around .75 MOA. I was also capable of calling my shots back then.

[creedman6.5]

There is no need to prove how well one can shoot.....The main problem with internet sharpshooters is that they taint the reputations of the fella's that can make a factory rifle perform well above average. Yes, some people here and there can make that factory rifle sing......and they do frequent internet gun forums. Heck, the quest for accuracy is why most of us are involved in shooting and reloading. But, in general, many more claims of consistent 1/2" accuracy from a factory rifle are simply not true. I've had a few factory rigs that would occasionally shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards but that doesn't make it a 1/2" gun......Usually more like 3/4" to 1" average......I'm talking factory rifles here............not one that's been worked over from stem to stern with little semblance of what it was when it rolled off the assembly line.

The gun club I belong to has hundreds of members that shoot there a lot....Many old, retired guys with nothing better to do than hit the range (I hope to be one of them some day!)......We host a lot of matches.....BR, UBR, Rim fire benchrest, service rifle, IDPA you name it......but there's on common theme whether I'm looking at informal targets or match targets....The consistent 1/2" factory rifle, is a rare bird. Of course there is a much larger cross section of people on the internet who love to shoot and reload so I would definitely expect there to be some ringers out there. But as far as the average gun forum board member goes, in general, I take such claims with a grain of salt. Pictures really prove nothing because anyone can make a target look good with creative editing or stretching the truth about the distance that it was shot at. There's no reason to think that any of the guys replying to this thread are lying......but for every one of you there are 100 guys out there claiming 1/2" factory guns that are simply no where near that accurate.

.....and don't get me started on folks who say just because they called a flyer it doesn't belong in the group....if it came out of the muzzle while you were shooting that group it counts, there's no way around it.

....oh and by the way....Here's my 1/2" factory gun......



Every single hole in the paper measures 1/2"!!!!!

Agreed


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[creedman6.5]

I've had 3-4 that were right around a half inch, give or take a tenth(likely me falling short on my part. All of the rifles were model 12's (my favorite), all heavy barrels (varmint weight or heavier), and all were shooting rifle specific worked up loads. The two in particular that were consistent half inch or better rifles were not, off the shelf, and one had an aftermarket barrel. One was a m12 LRP in 6.5 crmr, glass bedded, with a brake my gs installed, and the other is a m12 with a 1:8 twist 22-250 match chambered stainless barrel my gs made up using a bartlein varmint contour blank. It is also glass bedded in a manners t5 stock, and it loves the 80gr vld load I worked up. It's probably my favorite rifle, and a coyotes death sentence. I'll get the pics from my old phone and post them later.


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These two targets were shot with this rifle and factory v max loads, no mods to the rifle. It's a dual port single shot m12 in .223.


These are targets from load work ups for this m12 lrp 6.5creed. At the time of these targets it was glass bedded with a small brake installed.



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[zach_]

These two targets were shot with this rifle and factory v max loads, no mods to the rifle. It's a dual port single shot m12 in .223.


These are targets from load work ups for this m12 lrp 6.5creed. At the time of these targets it was glass bedded with a small brake installed.



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Holy brake dust Batman, that LRP looks just like mine. So do the wheels.

[big honkin jeep]

Savage Arms Headquarters 100 Springdale Road Westfield, MA 01085

[dwayne.james.10]

Here is a 3 shot group at 100 yards using Fusion 140 gr

.

This is 2 shot group at 100 yards using Hornady 147gr ELD. 2 round is all I had at the time.



Savage is producing the most accurate rifle out of the box for a reasonable price.




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[zach_]

Here is a 3 shot group at 100 yards using Fusion 140 gr

.

This is 2 shot group at 100 yards using Hornady 147gr ELD. 2 round is all I had at the time.



Savage is producing the most accurate rifle out of the box for a reasonable price.




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Did you get a new scope?

As far as the thread... Everybody I see shooting, shoots a flier (a swing and a miss), now and then.

[dwayne.james.10]

Like this flier. No I did not. Same scope Nightforce




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[berudd]

I suspect many claims of these guns being 1/2" capable is probably because someone shot a single 3" group that was 1/2" Or there abouts. Maybe just a tad over.... Now I am sure that these rifles shoot exceptionally well. But to really be a 1/2" gun it needs to do it all the time. A single group can be luck. I once put 2 or 3 shots through a ragged hole at, I think 50 yards. The hole was literally only slightly larger than a single bullet. It was cool but it was luck. Neither I nor my rifle can do that on a consistent basis. Well, I can't anyway.

[m12lrs]

Put 5 five shot groups on one target and average them. That is pretty much representative of the accuracy of that rifle.

The more shots the more representative of the statistical norm

[Rondogg]

Hmmm. You say they all are not accurate, yet Savage produces some ofthe most accurate out of the box rifles there are. I have an LRP in 6.5 that shoots dimes at 100yds all day. Maybe it's the nut behind the butt causing the inaccuracy problems????

[zach_]

Hmmm. You say they all are not accurate, yet Savage produces some ofthe most accurate out of the box rifles there are. I have an LRP in 6.5 that shoots dimes at 100yds all day. Maybe it's the nut behind the butt causing the inaccuracy problems????

Nut behind the butt. (he he he)

Then there are also those that talk about about their sub moa shooting at 1000 yards with the 308 rifle that they just shot 1, 1.5" group out of 5 groups at 100 yards on a target minutes before, the other 4 groups being larger of course. "She really shines past 800". I heard that one too many times today.

[Rackfreak210]

Hmmm. You say they all are not accurate, yet Savage produces some ofthe most accurate out of the box rifles there are. I have an LRP in 6.5 that shoots dimes at 100yds all day. Maybe it's the nut behind the butt causing the inaccuracy problems????

I agree totally. I have a 10 fcp-sr in 6.5 creedmoor and it shoots 3 different factory loads into one hole at 100 yds. Well below a half minute rifle.


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[Texas10]

I agree totally. I have a 10 fcp-sr in 6.5 creedmoor and it shoots 3 different factory loads into one hole at 100 yds. Well below a half minute rifle.


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Back in the day they called that "one in a thousand" !!!

[Rackfreak210]

Back in the day they called that "one in a thousand" !!!

I agree that they might not all shoot this well but there are other factors involved in a rifles potential accuracy. All in all with the research i did before buying this rifle, it seemed that they all generally shot exceptionally well.


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[aephilli822]

......
also, you wil never know the full potential til you shoot at night w/ zero wind.
...

or in The Houston Wharehouse

[LinemanBob]

I am very pleased with my model 12FV in .308. Including the rifle, scope and mounts including all taxes, I have $666.13 invested. If you know of another brand that can match the accuracy of the Savage I would like to know about it. I cannot shoot sub MOA groups but 1 MOA is pretty easy for me.

[DLALLDER]

I have a model 12 in 223 that with a good shooter, I believe will produce .25 groups regular. I am 71 and I can on a good day for me I can get half inch or less.

[farlou]

My 10 FCP-SR shoots 1/2 MOA consistently and on a good day will reward me with 1/3 MOA groups. Not bad for a rifle that cost $630.

It took a few weeks to develop a good load but now I have it. One thing that made a big difference is fire formed brass and neck sizing only. Full length resizing will not shoot good groups for me.

[Spearjunkie]

You read about the 1/2 groups on the Internet all the time. Even on the AR forums. I am not saying.it is impossible to have.a consistent 1/2" rifle but consistent is what I am taking about.

Give me a target with 5 5 shot groups that average 1/2" and that is a half inch rifle. Not one 3 shot group.

Agreed! It takes a dam good shooter to consistently shoot 1/2 MOA, I am not one of those shooters as of yet.

Update: Shot a couple groups st an indoor range today being we are going to shoot some long range tomorrow. Everything I shot at 100 yards was 3/4 or better and my best 5 shot group could almost be covered with a dime.

[Jdun91764]

model 12 LRP will shoot 1 hole at 100 meters with worked up handloads. I have 6.5 Creedmoor and 204 Ruger that shoot 1 hole - the Creedmoor now has a shilen as I shot out the stock barrel. Even the stock barrel shot 1 hole.

I thought they they all did it until I got a 110le in 300wm that shoots like shit. I am still working on it though.

The Model 12 LRP are the way to go IMHO.

that or a blue printed remage.

jd

[RC20]

or in The Houston Wharehouse

Yea that was some good reading. What they did was amazing.

Its a shame the bullet mfgs don't do that kind of research and publish it.

[zach_]

Yea that was some good reading. What they did was amazing.

Its a shame the bullet mfgs don't do that kind of research and publish it.

Do you have a link to the story?

[stinkysix]

Savage Stealth 338 Lapua, 250gr Matchking, Retumbo powder, last three groupings .372, .2815 and .296. Will load some H1000 next

[gmanhawaii]

I have only had a sample size of three but all three were 2MOA+ guns with 5 shot groups from the bench on sand bags (front and back of stock). Two of the three were closer to 3MOA.

This is with stock rifles in:
-Axis 243
-16 in 270WSM

And a stock rifle with a bedded synthetic stock:
-110E in 270

I will give them that the triggers were great after adjustments, but accuracy was nothing to write home about (i.e. I've had more accurate rifles). So I guess my question is, where are all these 0.5MOA out of the box Savages I read about on the internet coming from? I wonder if maybe they're referring to one lucky 3 shot group out of several. That wouldn't be a surprise, but a consistent 0.5MOA? I've never seen it in a Savage. I like the concept of Savage. They're sturdy and easy to upgrade, but I'm talking about stock Savages. It seems from the ones I've owned 2MOA is what can be expected (at least in most cases). Am I wrong?

Brand new FLCP in DMT chassis .308, cleaned before taking to the range. Fired 3 fouling shots with crap ammo, took 5 rounds to dial in the scope Hornady match ammo. Fired 40 rounds of my own recipe, Lapua Brass trimmed to 2.005, Fed 210 primer, 168 gr SMK, 44.5 gr Varget OAL 2.800

First two group .334, .437 Last two .558 and .570 after 46 rounds