Where are all these 1/2MOA Savages coming from?

[777funk]

I have only had a sample size of three but all three were 2MOA+ guns with 5 shot groups from the bench on sand bags (front and back of stock). Two of the three were closer to 3MOA.

This is with stock rifles in:
-Axis 243
-16 in 270WSM

And a stock rifle with a bedded synthetic stock:
-110E in 270

I will give them that the triggers were great after adjustments, but accuracy was nothing to write home about (i.e. I've had more accurate rifles). So I guess my question is, where are all these 0.5MOA out of the box Savages I read about on the internet coming from? I wonder if maybe they're referring to one lucky 3 shot group out of several. That wouldn't be a surprise, but a consistent 0.5MOA? I've never seen it in a Savage. I like the concept of Savage. They're sturdy and easy to upgrade, but I'm talking about stock Savages. It seems from the ones I've owned 2MOA is what can be expected (at least in most cases). Am I wrong?

[Mountain Man]

Are you shooting good ammo? My buddy had a axis with accu trig in .30-06 that was a FAT 2" @ 100yd until he tried some of my 180 corelokt reloads burning VARGET. That load brought that gun down to a pretty even 1 MOA.

While I've never personally seen it, I don't think half MOA is unattainable from broken-in factory guns shooting accurate calibers. 270 WSM would be one of those calibers, but I'm referring more to the 6-6.5mm diameter holes. Seen some pretty tight .22-250s as well. Your .243 shoulda done better too.

It should also be noted that these guys that are getting these reported half-MOA groups are doing so with bangers that cost 2-3x more than the entry level axis or 110E.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[keeki]

I don't own one that won't do .5"

[olddav]

My used 110 shot 3 MOA @ 100 yards untill I found the ammo it liked. Federal Power Shok 150 grain bullets dropped my groups to .75 MOA consistently. One differance to note is my groups consisted of 3 shots, 5 shots through a hunting barrel just heats it up too much (IMOHO).

[777funk]

This was with factory ammo and reloads. The reloads are with fire-formed (neck sized only) brass and Hornady bullets seated to .010" from the lands. I didn't exhaust all possibilities working with powder charge and types but tried enough. I would say I probably have a 3 shot group or two that I was impressed with but no real consistent sub 2MOA groups. I usually let the barrel cool with the bolt open for a few minutes between shots.

[bowfishn]

They are not 1/2" MOA but they do attest to the accuracy of the Savage Rifle even if it is an old beater.

[short round]

Sometimes it's not the rifle, it is the shooter. Assuming the Rifle is set up correctly for the shooter & capable of 1/4 moa, some shooter's will, if they are lucky shoot 1/4 moa, most will not, till they have put in the time, dedication, practice, education.

[bowfishn]

My sons old 111C 270 wood Stock, barrel was rusty from him not cleaning it the year before, threw together a load with 140 gr Hornady SST and 53.1 gr. H4350.
Shot two 3 shot groups (mind you they were not 5 shot groups) at the end of sight in one just before final adjustment and one right after final adjustments.

[noname]

this is the enter net you know..

[olddav]

777funk, What Hornady bullets are you using?

[777funk]

With the 270 (spent more time with it) it was with Hornady 130gr RN and IMR4350.
With the 243 it was HRN2410 70gr SP and 42.5 IMR4320 powder (experimented up and down a bit)
With the 270WSM it was Winchester (IIRC) factory loads.

I am fairly experienced from the bench and using bags and have shot 1/4MOA groups before (a CZ 527 17HMR). I built a rifle (not Savage) I can reliably (rarely bigger or smaller) shoot .6MOA 5 shot groups with. I would think that I could build a Savage that would do the same or better with money invested, but I was hoping for stock rifles to do this based on much of what I've read online.

[mbohuntr]

With the 270 (spent more time with it) it was with Hornady 130gr RN and IMR4350.
With the 243 it was HRN2410 70gr SP and 42.5 IMR4320 powder (experimented up and down a bit)
With the 270WSM it was Winchester (IIRC) factory loads.

I am fairly experienced from the bench and using bags and have shot 1/4MOA groups before (a CZ 527 17HMR). I built a rifle (not Savage) I can reliably (rarely bigger or smaller) shoot .6MOA 5 shot groups with. I would think that I could build a Savage that would do the same or better with money invested, but I was hoping for stock rifles to do this based on much of what I've read online.

My Savage 10 in .223 shot a nice three shot group you can cover with a dime, and my SIL had a sub MOA at 200 with the same rifle.. but those are handloads..

[blfuller]

My Savage Precision Carbine in .308 is a .678 MOA rifle with hand loads. I have never tried any Factory match ammo in it but it may be capable of .500" MOA in the right hands.

[RC20]

I agree on the thin Barrel Savages, they just do not shoot ( Sample of 2)

I may get one that will, I hand load, but I tried good loads in the 30--06 and a known load series in the 270 and lucky to get 1.5 inches and more like 2 (the 06 would shoot one, then shift 1.5 or better and print two more). those were only 3 shot groups, barrel not hot. I tried 5s and worse, and barrel was cooled well down each time.

I don't mind a thin barrel shooting just 2 into one spot, but to shift like that is not good.

On the other hand, the Savage Varmint contour looks to be 1/2 MOA with the right loads, still working with it, got off track, had some going good then lost it though I think it was my erratic shooting.

Said barrel as also smooth as opposed to others reported rough.

[big honkin jeep]

Keep looking, there are loads, there are good loads and there are fantastic loads.
Many sell themselves short and stop at good,while others keep looking till they find fantastic.
Sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error to get there.
I have one 30-06 model 16 in particular that shoots about 6-8" groups with factory 125gr ballistic tips. darn thing is lucky to hit a pie plate with that load.
That same rifle has put a best 10 shot group of .446 on the paper with 165gr SGK HPBTs and IMR4350 with a CCI BR2 primer, and shoots 5 shot groups of that load consistently under 1/2 MOA. (But everyone on the internet knows the 30-06 is antiquated and not nearly as accurate as insert latest whiz bang cartridge here)
Same thing with several other rifles including a 111 in 25-06 that took a whole lot of load development to figure out that RL22 110gr Accubonds and Winchester LR primers was the ticket.
Then again maybe it was the rattlecan paintjob :)
I do know that 75gr V maxs are not on the menu for that rig.
Then there's a 12BVSS that the load just fell in my lap on about the third load I tried with 55gr Vmax Varget and a Fed 210. That load went from 2" to watch me shoot a hole through the center of this dime, with nothing more than a primer change.
Then there's a 111 in .270 that needed nothing more than factory 130gr Federal blue box power shock (the cheap stuff) to shoot stupid accurate.
I see a lot of guys throwing tons of money at rifles of all stripes and none of them shoot worth a dime with the wrong load and haven't found a Savage yet I couldn't get to shoot very well indeed with the right load.
I always recommend that someone looking for accuracy start with a basic hand loading kit which is way way cheaper than swapping even one aftermarket barrel.
Some of you guys crack me up with the thin barrel fat barrel and long barrel stuff. All of my hunting rifles turn heads at the range once load development is complete and often embarrass high dollar braggarts and tactifools. (insert excuses here) A shooter is a shooter. Keep looking for the load. It's there.

Sometimes it's quick and easy, but most often it takes a lot of trial and error, and sometimes a whole lot, to find fantastic.
If you stop once you get under 1" loads you'll never find the 1 hole load.
Good luck

[godale]

Keep looking, there are loads, there are good loads and there are fantastic loads.
Many sell themselves short and stop at good,while others keep looking till they find fantastic.
Sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error to get there.
I have one 30-06 model 16 in particular that shoots about 6-8" groups with factory 125gr ballistic tips. darn thing is lucky to hit a pie plate with that load.
That same rifle has put a best 10 shot group of .446 on the paper with 165gr SGK HPBTs and IMR4350 with a CCI BR2 primer, and shoots 5 shot groups of that load consistently under 1/2 MOA. (But everyone on the internet knows the 30-06 is antiquated and not nearly as accurate as insert latest whiz bang cartridge here)
Same thing with several other rifles including a 111 in 25-06 that took a whole lot of load development to figure out that RL22 110gr Accubonds and Winchester LR primers was the ticket.
Then again maybe it was the rattlecan paintjob :)
I do know that 75gr V maxs are not on the menu for that rig.
Then there's a 12BVSS that the load just fell in my lap on about the third load I tried with 55gr Vmax Varget and a Fed 210. That load went from 2" to watch me shoot a hole through the center of this dime, with nothing more than a primer change.
Then there's a 111 in .270 that needed nothing more than factory 130gr Federal blue box power shock (the cheap stuff) to shoot stupid accurate.
I see a lot of guys throwing tons of money at rifles of all stripes and none of them shoot worth a dime with the wrong load and haven't found a Savage yet I couldn't get to shoot very well indeed with the right load.
I always recommend that someone looking for accuracy start with a basic hand loading kit which is way way cheaper than swapping even one aftermarket barrel.
Some of you guys crack me up with the thin barrel fat barrel and long barrel stuff. All of my hunting rifles turn heads at the range once load development is complete and often embarrass high dollar braggarts and tactifools. (insert excuses here) A shooter is a shooter. Keep looking for the load. It's there.

Sometimes it's quick and easy, but most often it takes a lot of trial and error, and sometimes a whole lot, to find fantastic.
If you stop once you get under 1" loads you'll never find the 1 hole load.
Good luck

very well said

[Dave Hoback]

Oh, it's SUPER easy to shoot .5 MOA with any stock Savage. There are a couple things, & one EASY little trick. First, tailor reloads to each particular rifle. Then find a nice comfy spot to sit. Now the little secret trick. What ya do is go online, and simply LIE YOUR BUTT OFF!! It's SO SIMPLE! EVERY single one of mine have been .5 MOA, including the couple dozen AK-47s I've built in my life.

[foxx]

Keep looking, there are loads, there are good loads and there are fantastic loads.
Many sell themselves short and stop at good,while others keep looking till they find fantastic.
Sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error to get there.
I have one 30-06 model 16 in particular that shoots about 6-8" groups with factory 125gr ballistic tips. darn thing is lucky to hit a pie plate with that load.
That same rifle has put a best 10 shot group of .446 on the paper with 165gr SGK HPBTs and IMR4350 with a CCI BR2 primer, and shoots 5 shot groups of that load consistently under 1/2 MOA. (But everyone on the internet knows the 30-06 is antiquated and not nearly as accurate as insert latest whiz bang cartridge here)
Same thing with several other rifles including a 111 in 25-06 that took a whole lot of load development to figure out that RL22 110gr Accubonds and Winchester LR primers was the ticket.
Then again maybe it was the rattlecan paintjob :)
I do know that 75gr V maxs are not on the menu for that rig.
Then there's a 12BVSS that the load just fell in my lap on about the third load I tried with 55gr Vmax Varget and a Fed 210. That load went from 2" to watch me shoot a hole through the center of this dime, with nothing more than a primer change.
Then there's a 111 in .270 that needed nothing more than factory 130gr Federal blue box power shock (the cheap stuff) to shoot stupid accurate.
I see a lot of guys throwing tons of money at rifles of all stripes and none of them shoot worth a dime with the wrong load and haven't found a Savage yet I couldn't get to shoot very well indeed with the right load.
I always recommend that someone looking for accuracy start with a basic hand loading kit which is way way cheaper than swapping even one aftermarket barrel.
Some of you guys crack me up with the thin barrel fat barrel and long barrel stuff. All of my hunting rifles turn heads at the range once load development is complete and often embarrass high dollar braggarts and tactifools. (insert excuses here) A shooter is a shooter. Keep looking for the load. It's there.

Sometimes it's quick and easy, but most often it takes a lot of trial and error, and sometimes a whole lot, to find fantastic.
If you stop once you get under 1" loads you'll never find the 1 hole load.
Good luck

Or, I can just give up, call you a liar and tell myself and everyone in the world it can't be done. Meanwhile, all of your rifles shoot, and mine don't. At least I don't feel like I failed at something.

[777funk]

Yes RC20 and this is the thin barrel Savages I've experienced. The 270WSM was a stainless. Not impressed with any. I shouldn't be that harsh... 2MOA is more than good enough for a hunting rifle which is what most are after. But I'm talking target shooting. There's nothing to brag about in that category with a 2MOA rifle.

I guess that would lead me to think that the thin barrels are just not what I'm after and I'm probably looking for an action to build on.

My accurate shooter (only own one) happens to be a super thick bull barrel. I've never owned anything thin that would shoot. But... that's only been my experience. Sounds like others have had better luck with thin barrels.

[bowfishn]

My sons Savage 111C 270 was only shooting 2-3" groups at 100 with his old scope using Remington 150 Cor-Loks. We switched it over to a Burris DropTine 3-9 x 40 and then reloaded the Hornady 140 SST ammo, that is the reason for the 53.1 grains of H4350 so it would land right with the scopes ballistic plex reticle.

[m12lrs]

You read about the 1/2 groups on the Internet all the time. Even on the AR forums. I am not saying.it is impossible to have.a consistent 1/2" rifle but consistent is what I am taking about.

Give me a target with 5 5 shot groups that average 1/2" and that is a half inch rifle. Not one 3 shot group.

[777funk]

You read about the 1/2 groups on the Internet all the time. Even on the AR forums. I am not saying.it is impossible to have.a consistent 1/2" rifle but consistent is what I am taking about.

Give me a target with 5 5 shot groups that average 1/2" and that is a half inch rifle. Not one 3 shot group.

This is what I'm talking about. A 1/2MOA rifle is not one with an occasional 1/2" 3 shot group. I'd consider it one that will do it all day long with no wind and a good operator and load.

[Spearjunkie]

You read about the 1/2 groups on the Internet all the time. Even on the AR forums. I am not saying.it is impossible to have.a consistent 1/2" rifle but consistent is what I am taking about.

Give me a target with 5 5 shot groups that average 1/2" and that is a half inch rifle. Not one 3 shot group.

Agreed! It takes a dam good shooter to consistently shoot 1/2 MOA, I am not one of those shooters as of yet.

Update: Shot a couple groups st an indoor range today being we are going to shoot some long range tomorrow. Everything I shot at 100 yards was 3/4 or better and my best 5 shot group could almost be covered with a dime.

[olddav]

777funk,
It has been my experience that those bullets require more jump than .010. Seat them deeper, a lot deeper.

[bowfishn]

I believe a lot of the inconsistency is shooter more than the rifle, just as heavier rifles tend to be more forgiving off the bench. But that doesn't mean a light Sporter rifle won't shoot, it just means it is more difficult for the shooter, as long as the shooter does the job it will shoot. That is given the scope is good, the bedding is good, the barrel is reasonably good, the loads are right and crown is clean. There is a saying that a lot of guys use, "The Rifle will out shoot Me" in many cases that is true, sometimes not. I have done a lot of spot shooting with my bow in the past, and there are bows that are more forgiving, that is to say if you mess up it does not matter as much and there are bows less forgiving that if you do your part will shoot just as good as the forgiving bow. Setup, setup, setup.
Also the power of the scope will allow you to concentrate on the smaller spot, leading to better groups. Although some guys do great with lower power, I am not one of them. I have to see what I am shooting at, my eyes as I get older are like a Hoover Vac they suck.