358 Winchester load

[brstevens]

Does anyone have a 358 win load using 180-200 gr Jacket bullets giving around 1800-2000 fps ?

[FW Conch]

I have a 358W and really like it. I shoot full power loads in it.

What is Your purpose for reduced loads?

The Hodgdon site has instructions for using H4895 for reduced loads. I have used it for reduced loads in other calibers, and it works very well.

[brstevens]

Just for Paper Punching at 100 yards

[FW Conch]

The Hodgdon method should serve You well.

You may also look in to the Trail Boss method. But the velocity will be much slower.

[brstevens]

The Hodgdon method should serve You well.

You may also look in to the Trail Boss method. But the velocity will be much slower.

Thanks I will take a look at the Hodgdons site.

[The Old Coach]

I'm going to go off the reservation according to most folks with this one, but my load would be about 23 grains of Blue Dot. Blue Dot has been a great powder for 2000 fps. loads in my 7.5x55 Swiss. Picked the idea up from a guy who shoots mil-surps in competition where the rules limit you to cast bullets. Their velocities are right around 2000 fps. Generally speaking, 2000 fps. from a rifle length barrel needs a pressure of around 30,000 psi., and that's right in the sweet spot for Blue Dot.

BTW I'm using CCI standard large rifle primers in Norma brass.

Forget Trail Boss. You can't get enough into the case to even make 1500 fps. A fast powder, but very low energy.

[bigedp51]

If you switch to 158 grain .357 pistol bullets you could use Trail Boss and have a light plinking load.

I shoot 100 grain .312 pistol bullets with Trail Boss in my .303 British Enfield rifles to fire form cases. When shooting 100 rounds it makes the brass butt plate much softer.

[The Old Coach]

If you switch to 158 grain .357 pistol bullets you could use Trail Boss and have a light plinking load.

I shoot 100 grain .312 pistol bullets with Trail Boss in my .303 British Enfield rifles to fire form cases. When shooting 100 rounds it makes the brass butt plate much softer.

Very true. I fired a ton of commercial hard cast semiwadcutters from my Marlin .35 Remington, back in the day when it was my only rifle.

About 20 grains of Blue Dot with a hard cast gas checked SWC for 1800 - 1900 fps. in your .358 Win.

About 8 or 9 grains of Red Dot / Green Dot / Bullseye / Unique with a plain base for 1400 fps or so. Trail Boss would work at about ten grains.

(I'm pulling those out of Quickload.)

Cheap shooting, and in my Marlin some loads were 2 MOA accurate.

[brstevens]

Thanks, never thought about Bluedot, don't have any on hand. How would Bullseye or Unique work with Jacketed bullets? I believe I have 2 lb of Bullseye.

[The Old Coach]

Thanks, never thought about Bluedot, don't have any on hand. How would Bullseye or Unique work with Jacketed bullets? I believe I have 2 lb of Bullseye.

Lucky man. Bullseye seems to be in famine mode these days. I just spent an arm and a leg buying 2lb. online from the only place that had any after half an hour of searching. LGS near me haven't had any for nigh on to a year. I only use it in low pressure pistol cartridges, 1 to 3 grains at a time. It's still the best powder ever for .38 special target ammo. 2 lb. will last me the rest of my life!

Bulleye is pretty fast for 200 grain jacketed, but up to 15 grains looks OK. I'm assuming your rifle is a good strong action. Velocity will be only 1800 fps. from a 24 inch barrel. Pressure again in the 30,000 psi range. Be hyper-vigilant with these light loads that you don't get a double charge !! Then your pressure will blow up all but the sturdiest pressure guns. I'd even back that off to maybe 13 grains to start, and work in the 13-15 range to find the best accuracy. DO NOT USE A FILLER with any of these loads !

Unique has for generations been extolled as a good reduced-load powder. But I get tired of how dirty it burns.

What other powders do you have? I bought my Quickload to estimate loads for old obsolete cartridges for which there has never been handbook data. But it turns out to be wizard at picking out substitutes for powders that you can't get, which is more and more common these days.

[brstevens]

Lucky man. Bullseye seems to be in famine mode these days. I just spent an arm and a leg buying 2lb. online from the only place that had any after half an hour of searching. LGS near me haven't had any for nigh on to a year. I only use it in low pressure pistol cartridges, 1 to 3 grains at a time. It's still the best powder ever for .38 special target ammo. 2 lb. will last me the rest of my life!

Bulleye is pretty fast for 200 grain jacketed, but up to 15 grains looks OK. I'm assuming your rifle is a good strong action. Velocity will be only 1800 fps. from a 24 inch barrel. Pressure again in the 30,000 psi range. Be hyper-vigilant with these light loads that you don't get a double charge !! Then your pressure will blow up all but the sturdiest pressure guns. I'd even back that off to maybe 13 grains to start, and work in the 13-15 range to find the best accuracy. DO NOT USE A FILLER with any of these loads !

2400 is a possibility, and AA#9 is almost exactly the same speed as 2400. I've used #9 with good results in the .25-20 Single Shot and .32 Ideal Schuetzen cartridges. It has kinda fallen out of favor with the top shooters, who are now using 4100 or Ramshot Enforcer, (which are the same powder under different labels). Schuetzen loads use heavy plain base bullets at about 1450 fps., often in the .32-40 case, which like your .358 leave a lot of airspace above the powder.

Was gifted a couple of pounds about 5 years back, still setting on the shelf . Was thinking along the same line 10-13gr Bullseye but was not sure, or maybe 12 gr of Unique.
Built a 358 win on a Axis action, so I believe I will be OK!

[brstevens]

Lucky man. Bullseye seems to be in famine mode these days. I just spent an arm and a leg buying 2lb. online from the only place that had any after half an hour of searching. LGS near me haven't had any for nigh on to a year. I only use it in low pressure pistol cartridges, 1 to 3 grains at a time. It's still the best powder ever for .38 special target ammo. 2 lb. will last me the rest of my life!

Bulleye is pretty fast for 200 grain jacketed, but up to 15 grains looks OK. I'm assuming your rifle is a good strong action. Velocity will be only 1800 fps. from a 24 inch barrel. Pressure again in the 30,000 psi range. Be hyper-vigilant with these light loads that you don't get a double charge !! Then your pressure will blow up all but the sturdiest pressure guns. I'd even back that off to maybe 13 grains to start, and work in the 13-15 range to find the best accuracy. DO NOT USE A FILLER with any of these loads !

Unique has for generations been extolled as a good reduced-load powder. But I get tired of how dirty it burns.

What other powders do you have? I bought my Quickload to estimate loads for old obsolete cartridges for which there has never been handbook data. But it turns out to be wizard at picking out substitutes for powders that you can't get, which is more and more common these days.

I do have some 5477 and imr 4227 I could try.

[The Old Coach]

Use 4227 at about 28 grains. Quite a few of the ASSRA cast-bullet shooters use that at even lower pressures, aiming for about 1450 fps out of 24" barrels. (We are restricted to plain base bullets, so higher velocities generally cause leading.)

I burned a ton of XMP 5744 in the '90s. It was the popular powder for heavy cast bullets in .30-06 up to .45-70, based on a couple of articles that Mike Venturio published, and it is pretty good. It isn't very position-sensitive, which is the bugaboo with 4227 at light loadings. It has fallen out of favor for two reasons IMHO. Firstly it's expensive, and second it likes to be run at something over 25,000 psi., or you get a lot of unburned grains left over. I used a blow tube in one rifle to at least clear these from the chamber. Otherwise I dented cases left, right and center. It also doesn't meter as quite well as ball powders. Around 28 grains should get you into your desired 2000 fps. velocity range. If you get unburned grains, up the load. You can go to 35 grains and still be well within the pressure limits, but your velocity will have crept up close to 2400. The original XMP 5744 was said to be a repackaged Czech military powder. They ran out of that, and had it replicated somewhere else. Rumor is that the "new" powder, which is named just AA5744, is not the same, so I'm quoting loads from Quickload, not from my notes. (I never had a .358 Win, my experience in .35s was all around .35 Remington.)

[Zero333]

Cartridge : .358 Win.
Bullet : .358, 200, Hornady SPSP 3510 (spitzer)
Useable Case Capaci: 49.009 grain H2O = 3.182 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.780 inch = 70.61 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 67 30.40 1622 1169 15443 3524 70.0 1.816
-18.0 69 31.16 1661 1224 16231 3664 71.2 1.778
-16.0 71 31.92 1699 1282 17060 3805 72.5 1.741
-14.0 72 32.68 1738 1341 17933 3947 73.7 1.705
-12.0 74 33.44 1777 1402 18852 4089 74.9 1.669
-10.0 76 34.20 1816 1465 19819 4232 76.1 1.635
-08.0 77 34.96 1856 1529 20841 4375 77.3 1.601
-06.0 79 35.72 1895 1595 21916 4517 78.5 1.568
-04.0 81 36.48 1935 1663 23048 4660 79.6 1.535
-02.0 82 37.24 1975 1733 24242 4802 80.7 1.504
+00.0 84 38.00 2016 1805 25500 4943 81.8 1.473
+02.0 86 38.76 2056 1878 26827 5083 82.9 1.443
+04.0 87 39.52 2097 1953 28227 5221 84.0 1.413
+06.0 89 40.28 2138 2029 29704 5358 85.0 1.384
+08.0 91 41.04 2179 2108 31261 5494 86.0 1.356
+10.0 93 41.80 2220 2188 32911 5627 87.0 1.329

-----------------------------------------------

+0 = 84% case fill, 38.0 gr charge weight, 2016 fps, 1,805 ft-lbs Energy, ,25,500 psi chamber pressure, 4,943 psi Muzzle pressure, 81.8% powder burned, 1.473 milliseconds Barrel Time (irrelevant for most people)

[The Old Coach]

I've never even tried to load 4895 at such low pressures. Would not expect consistent burn. If anyone does try it, please report?

[Zero333]

I've never even tried to load 4895 at such low pressures. Would not expect consistent burn. If anyone does try it, please report?

This is Hodgdon's H-4895 reduced load recommendation. Start at 60% of max charge weight for that cartridge/bullet, which for the 358win with 200 grainers would be around 48gr.
48 x 0.6 = 28.8 gr

28.8 gr being the minimum safe starting load for this combo.