Electronic Powder Scales ??

[shovelheadave]

I have a number of rounds to load for a Prairie Dog hunt later this month. I'll weight each load but, figured using a friend's Lyman DPS 1200 would be the hot ticket and a real time saver.

Went over this morning and the best it could do was stay with in .1 grain. I'm using an extruded powder (RL15) so it's not as easy to meter as Ball or Flake but, given that this was more of a trickle than a thrower, I expected more accurate metering, basically hitting 39.0 grains every time.

In checking the first dozen loads I found it to be 39.0 -39.1 when checked on a 505.

Am I expecting too much, or is this just how electronic powder measures are ??

[davemuzz]

I have the RCBS electronic scale. And with extruded powders such as RL-15 'n such, your just gonna have that. If you look at how the electronic scale works, it's going to give that tube that has powder in it a little turn to drop a dab of powder into the tray.

Well....It's just a best guess by a machine that has no "eyes".

Now, I find my RCBS much more accurate and a bit quicker loading ball powders such as BL-C2. But, every once in a while it will under\over throw those by .1 of a grain.

For a 400 yard shot from a 22-250, .1 grain isn't going to make a difference unless your going for an ear shot on each one.

Dave

[JeepsAndGuns]

I have the lyman DPS 1200 and love it. I have learned to live with the way it throws powders and have altered the way I use it to compensate.
Yes, with powders that have larger/thicker/longer grains to it, its gonna pretty much throw + or - .1 or .2 grains on the scale, its just the nature of the beast. Powders that have smaller/thinner/shorter grains to them (and ball or flake) it will usally hit the nail on the head each time, but it will trow .1 or so too much or less every now and then. I will simply dump it back in the top and drop another one. Its pretty quick at dropping charges.
Now lets say I want to load 40gr of powder, and its the large grain as mentioned above. I will usally set it to drop 39.9 or 39.8 if its having trouble with the selected powder. I will have a bottle cap filled with the powder setting next to the scale with some tweezers. When it drops the charge, I grab and drop a grain at a time from the cap into the pan till it reads what I want. It usally doesnt take but just a few (cause the grains are so large and heavy) and I have my correct charge.

Hope that may help some.

[shovelheadave]

Sorry guys, I should have been more clear about what I think I was seeing.

What I was finding was that it would consistently read 39.0 grains on the Lyman but, when I double checked it on the 505 some would be 39.0 and some would be 39.1.

Not really so much that it wasn't "correctly metering" as it seems the scale doesn't consistently recognize 39.0 grains.

[82boy]

I would say what your finding is normal. (Maybe better than expected?)

I am not a big fan of electronic powder dispensers, or electronic scale for that matter. I have noticed changes in temperature, air movement, (From an heater or AC unit turning on and off) and use of florescent lights, with mess with them.

[tammons]

Most serious bench shooters I have read about will throw a load or dispense it on an electronic dispenser
then reweigh it and tweak it. electronich dispensers are always off a little.

There is an electronic scale (just a scale) that will weigh down to one individual piece of varget powder.
Think it costs about $300.

[gotcha]

Dave, Interesting point. (your 2nd statement) The Lyman is a digital instrument and the 505 is analog, if you will. At what point does the Lyman round the number up to the next tenth? Another thought. The RCBS 10.10 is magneticly dampened the 505 isn't. ( I think) Could be the variation lies in the 505 rather than the Lyman unit. I have both a 505 that I started reloading with shortly after the advent of brass cartridges and a 10.10 that I bought because the 505 was so SLOW. I've never been able to get the two to jibe with the 250 grain test weight. Hey, we're only talking a tenth grain here! The P.D.'s won't be able to tell the difference :D Just my two cents. Hope you enjoy the p-doggin'. I went the 15th of May (spring fever) it was so windy I had to staple my hat on!!!!

[CJ in WY]

Nature of the beast. If your only getting a tenth varience than your already letting it warm up and keeping it out of any drafts.
All my high volume dogin rounds get reloaded with Tac,2200,2230-C and Benchmark in the Dillon or thrown with an old Lyman......I dont worry about a couple of tenths here or there.
I only use the 1200 for long range rounds with large grain powders that a thrower will not meter well(Varget,R22,R25 and 4831) Again a tenth here or there aint gonna mean more than my ability to read the wind

[dcloco]

Comparing two systems that are only capable of one tenth readings. Need equipment that truly measures accurately to be able to gauge your weighing regimen.

I use an Acculab 123 and get good results....rely on what the chronograph tells you (which, again, introduces another realm in the measurement category)....or....what is best....your groups at 200 or 300 yards on paper, will give you the final data that you need.

[BigDog]

I use the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 and love it. I weigh out every rifle round I shoot. I have compared the loads on my manual scale and have been the same. I am getting 1/4 inch groups so I have no problem with the accuracy and consistency with the RCBS. I loaded up 400 rounds up for my last prairie dog shoot and it is so much easier than the manual scale, especially with my older eyes. I just listen for the beep and ready to go. I had the scale go bad and RCBS replaced it with a new one for $45 dollars, when it was way out of warranty. I was hoping to hear about some of the new scales out this year. I work in a sporting goods store and have some customers have problems with static electricity with the Lyman scale.

[shovelheadave]

Am I making much concern about nothing ?? Maybe that .1 isn't even worth worrying about ?

It's always been my thought that I put so much care (time) into load development and case prep that weighing each load is just the final step. Again, I should probably be more clear...I'm using a Redding BR measure and throwing the load just a hair light then use a trickler to bring it up to weight.

This is all assuming that my analog scale reads spot-on from load to load. I hadn't ever considered that my beam scale might have a variance between loads. I understand that they're not perfect, that my 505 set to 39.0 could actually be 39.1 but, every load would still be consistantly 39.1. Am I wrong about that ?

Again, I'm not trying to speak poorly about any product or process. I'm just curious about something new. Thanks for all the feedback.

[BillPa]

Sorry guys, I should have been more clear about what I think I was seeing.

What I was finding was that it would consistently read 39.0 grains on the Lyman but, when I double checked it on the 505 some would be 39.0 and some would be 39.1.

Not really so much that it wasn't "correctly metering" as it seems the scale doesn't consistently recognize 39.0 grains.

Are you using check weights to verify the scales, not only for accuracy across it's range, but within the span your weighing. Is the scale actually reading accurately within the weight span at 30-40 grains as well as 50-60? Without known weights to verify your only assuming one scale or the other is in error. Without using known weights to verify them they both could be off a full grain, how would you know?

Bill

[shovelheadave]

LOL !!

Just talked to my old high power coach, his take........"You don't shoot well enough to worry about .1 variance. Get it out of your head. concentrate on your next shot".

Isn't it always the simplest answers that make the most sense ??

[dcloco]

LOL! Good info there.

I do know this. Bullet variances tend to produce a larger group size than anything else that I have tried to change in my reloading habits.

Jump to the lands and neck tension would be #2 and #3 on the list as well.

At the point now, I don't care how fast the projectile is travelling, as long as there is enough power and accuracy to hit the target in my crosshairs.

#4 on the reloading list....fast bullets & large(r) amounts of powder = less rounds down range before I have to clean the barrel.

[CA Desert Dog]

I may as well get into the mix here and toss in my 2-cents regarding the electronic powder measures. Without mentioning brand names, I have owned two of the "better" brands and I was not satisfied with the reliability, repeatability and accuracy of any of them. They are all very sensitive to ambient temperature, fluorescent lighting, magnetic fields and other factors. I went round and round with them and they ended up on eBay.

Now I own a good quality powder measure and check each charge on a reliable beam scale. I make up the difference (if any) with a powder trickeler. After all is said and done, I think my present method is actually faster and definitely more accurate. I just got tired of "wondering" if each and every charge was dead nuts on. They were not. Now they are.

[lostart]

This is the same method I use. Once you get a system, It can go fairly quickly.

[gotcha]

I've been pondering the unknowns of electronic vs. beam scales lately, also. I use a 3BR and trickle up for my accuracy loads. Found that charges I trickled-up didn't always weigh the same when chkd. a second time. A friend recommended that I tap on the base of the scale with a ball point pen or such when trickling up. Wow! What a difference! charges that indicated both high or low could be brought "dead on" with this method. And amazingly, when re-checked there were no more variances. It does make the process more tedious. Has anyone else used this method or care to comment? I agree with dcloco (priorities #1, #2,#3) but always striving to improve any aspect of the process. billpa, I've been meaning to buy those chk. wgts, for some time now. Just a slacker I guess. Dale