Max Barrel Length

[rdog52]

I shoot F-Class (F-T/R with a 308). I currently use a Savage PTA with a 30" bull barrel from Criterion. I will soon be ordering another barrel to have ready for when this one dies. I see many shooting F-T/R with longer barrels - many 32" barrels on conventionally shouldered barrel set ups.

My question is this - most of the pre-fit barrel manufacturers list 30" for the max length for the bull barrel. Is there a reason for this? Is the Savage nut configuration not as strong as a conventional shouldered barrel set up? If I have a barrel made to use the nut in a bull profile that finished at 31" am I stressing the action more than if I had one made up with a shoulder and no nut?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[darkker]

1) I shoot F-Class (F-T/R with a 308). I currently use a Savage PTA with a 30" bull barrel from Criterion. I see many shooting F-T/R with longer barrels - many 32" barrels on conventionally shouldered barrel set ups.

2) My question is this - most of the pre-fit barrel manufacturers list 30" for the max length for the bull barrel. Is there a reason for this?
3) Is the Savage nut configuration not as strong as a conventional shouldered barrel set up?
4) If I have a barrel made to use the nut in a bull profile that finished at 31" am I stressing the action more than if I had one made up with a shoulder and no nut?
.

1) .....OK..... Not sure why you would use that long of a barrel when you are allowed to use a scope(I get it with iron sights), but Age Quod Agis.
2) the reason is most folks looking for a "drop-in" savage barrel, are regular folks. Not looking for a $300 DIY F-T/R competition rifle. Those are typically specially purpose built.
3) Not at all, I would suspect it's as much about Voodoo, as anything. More on this in a moment.
4) Not at all.
So I'm not getting up to get specific measurements, so focus on the point more than the absolute numbers here.

Small shank barrels and receivers are 1-1/16" diameter. So the outer diameter of the action let's call 1.25".
Now whether you use a shoulder or a nut, the threads are 1-1/16" diameter. Also, whether you use a nut or a shoulder; the outer diameter matches the action at 1.25".

So shoulder or nut, there is 0.1875" of contact against the action to torque the threads against. That isn't better or worse, it's THE SAME. So do you like the look of the nut? Does your witch doctor barrel man have a story about the angels not liking one system? Just equally different ways to do the same thing.

[Robinhood]

Great topic. Some of the stuff posted will be Part B.S as only a few that visit this forum have seen real world experience.

Most all recoil lugs are made to a 1.325 diameter and the actions are 1.35. The recoil lug is sandwiched between the shoulder or nut and the action. IF there is a weak link in the barreled action assembly, it is at the action/lug/barrel junction. A integral lug to the action, arecoil lug with the same radius as the action or glued in action would offer a stronger link and since the action is 1.345 +/-, a barrel that diameter mated directly to the action would be optimal.

A good barrel linked to a Savage action can amaze if combined with a good shooter, stock, trigger and reloader with quality components. It can impress with a lot less.

[earl39]

Lets go back to question 1 and clear it up for darrker. The 1000yd F-class target (same target face used for open and T/R ) has a 5 inch X ring so shooters are looking for every advantage they can get with the 308 to cut the wind. Longer barrel = faster bullet, maybe not much but maybe just enough. If you have never tried to put 20 shots in a 5 inch circle at 1000 yards in 25 minutes you really should try it.

[Robinhood]

Lets go back to question 1 and clear it up for darrker. The 1000yd F-class target (same target face used for open and T/R ) has a 5 inch X ring so shooters are looking for every advantage they can get with the 308 to cut the wind. Longer barrel = faster bullet, maybe not much but maybe just enough. If you have never tried to put 20 shots in a 5 inch circle at 1000 yards in 25 minutes you really should try it.

No doubt.
Failure is something you will learn to live with. The 308 is humbling at a G.

[LoneWolf]

There was a point a year or 2 ago where the Savage team came out running factory Savage F-Class rifles and were upsetting the nay-sayers all season. If you want to hang a 32" tube by all means go ahead and do so! Most prefit ready to go barrels are the more commonly sought after lengths and a 32" is not a usual request. If you contact some of the primary suppliers they may be able to come up with something otherwise you'll have to place a custom order and have some patience!

[earl39]

Lets go back to question 1 and clear it up for darrker. The 1000yd F-class target (same target face used for open and T/R ) has a 5 inch X ring so shooters are looking for every advantage they can get with the 308 to cut the wind. Longer barrel = faster bullet, maybe not much but maybe just enough. If you have never tried to put 20 shots in a 5 inch circle at 1000 yards in 25 minutes you really should try it.

I almost forgot. You can't run the condition like benchrest shooters can as you have to wait between each shot for the score to be posted. It can take a while depending on how good your target puller is unless you are lucky enough to be shooting on a range with electronic targets.

[rdog52]

Thanks for all the replies! Good to hear different viewpoints. Yes, darkker, the reason for the longer barrel length is to reach an accuracy node without trashing brass (the guys using longer barrels and resulting velocity increase allow the node to be reached at lower pressure and better brass life).

I've been shooting F Class a couple of years now with my Savage/Criterion set up. I have reached High Master in mid range and Expert at long range. Still so much to learn, but I'm really enjoying it.

I'm getting ready to order a Brux for my next barrel and I'm stuck trying to decide on configuration and profile to still make weight. Robinhood makes a case for the shouldered set up being stronger. Others have said that the nut configuration is just as strong.

Thanks again for your thoughts and ideas.

[darkker]

I disagree on a practical standpoint about the nut/lug being a weak link. What are we controlling here? An over pressured 308, NOT a 50BMG without a muzzle brake.

Technically if your measurements are correct, then, fine from an engineering standpoint there is a potential failure point. But come on, it's a 308.
Painless has nearing 5,000 rounds fired. My recoil lug isn't bending in half, hasn't fallen lose. If it was a large problem, I'm certain the vast aftermarket boys who love selling precision ground lugs, that have been lapped with unicorn lard for $40+, would have tightened the tolerances enough to overcome the alarming situation

Thank you Erla39, forgot that sex sells.
Shooting that far, and much beyond, with a 308 is something I'm well versed with.

[yobuck]

Used to be, barrel length as in longer, was required to consume larger volumes of powder with larger capacity cases.
With the introduction of more powders, that theory has been revisited at least to some degree.
If there is no apperent increase in velocity with the longer barrel, what then would be the advantage?
Other than a longer sight plane for iorn sight use as has been mentioned.
Certainly the added length of a heavy barrel adds more stress on the action at least to some degree.
My guess would be, those using the long barrels with 308s don't really know why.
What color lure did you catch all those fish with? lol

[FW Conch]

^ Oh that is just tooo good :-)) ^

[darkker]

Truly