Reply With QuoteDoes the reloading manual give that dimension for a specific brand and or style of bullet also?
I changed the pencil thin .243 barrel on my Savage Axis to a full bull stainless steel 26" Shilen .243 barrel. Now comes the task of reloading for it. I had a few boxes of Remington 100 grain bullets to shoot up, so that is what I used to break in the barrel. Those bullets have an oal of 2.677". Reloading manuals say oal should be 2.710". When I measure the chamber in this barrel using a 105 grain A-Max, I get 2.702" to the lands. Has anyone else had that type of experience with a Shilen barrel?
Does the reloading manual give that dimension for a specific brand and or style of bullet also?
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Well my Hornady manual says for the .243 with 105 gr. Amax the cartridge overall length should be 2.640Originally Posted by jaded
Now you have 2.702 to the lands with a 105 Amax. How did you measure that? With a hornady overall length gauge?
That should work fine. about .060 of freebore
I have had that experience with several brands of barrels
No worries if you know the distance to lands and seat bullets from that dimension
Load manuals all have different AOL listed due to the specific bullet in that particular manual your looking in at the time
The reloading manuals that I used were Lyman and Nosler. They both gave the oal as 2.710". I measured using a fired case from that barrel and a 105 grain A-Max bullet. I think I will go about .015" off the lands with a minimum load and work up. Thanks for all the responses.
I think I will go about .015" off the lands with a minimum load and work up. Thanks for all the responses.
+1.
Last edited by wbm; 10-08-2016 at 04:43 PM.
If I am tracking, you used one bullet and now are comparing it to another?
Doesn't work that way, each will have a different profile and the OGIVE is going to be different (that's what meets the lands not the tip)
And frankly, all the reloading manual is are recommendations that for the most part (chamber/land variations aside) a safe load that will work in a magazine.
Sometimes what works best is longer and if you are target shooting you just single load (AR records are set doing that as odd as it sounds, you want a target rifle get a bolt action for crying out loud )
What you want to do is find out what the COAL is (measured at the OGVIE with a comparator) and then play with the length using the OGIVE not the tip.
Hornady makes a tool for that, you have to tap on the back to get it close to right, I just seat them longer and then test it with a real case (or dummy) and move it back until I don't get any stick. That is the absolute maximum, subtract another .005 for OGVIE variation.
Tips vary more than OVIBE e though OGIVE does vary a bit with same bullet as well. Its a lot different between style of bullets as well as mfg of same weight let alone different weight.
Some guns like up against and in the lands, some like some distance back though usually not more than .030. Most like something in between with closer usually better.
I load most of my bullets way to long, a set of 5 or 10 where I think its good, then depending on how the groups is, I used a RCBS Junior at the range to adjust the COAL (I have my comparator with me on its calipers (clips on) and go from there. I never measure the tip.
Just hunting, tip is fine, you are after most reliable not tack driving accuracy.
Just a separate add in.
When they refer to chamber size, they are tailing about how close to SAMI diameter, shoulder and neck tightened, not the length.
Lead into the throat can and does vary depending on the reamer type, easy slope, shape, in between.
You can have a target tight chamber and a short or very long COAL into the lands.
They do make very tight chambers for competition shooting and you can see those on the Shilen site.
Remington with their 700 Varmint barrel has a very long lead length, apparently they are expecting people to use the XLD bullets , way too long for normal bullets and seating and the XLDs are the ones that don't fall out or come close to falling out.
My Shilen prefit had a regular sammi 260 chamber.
I could load to the lands with the savage mags but not even close to lands with the AICS mags I now use.
No biggie, some of the best BC 6.5 bullets available love to jump.
As it sit's now I'm jumping ELD-M's about .110 of an inch.
I have dozens of 5 shot ragged holes and hits on steel at quite a bit further than 1000 yards without chasing lands.
Find a load it likes and run with it.
Often even VLD's like some jump.
Yep
You have to take your measurement to the lands with each bullet you are using. Just try it with a berger VLD and a Sierra Game King and see what you get.
Thanks RC20, Steelhead, and m12lrs. You all have good points. I just gave the OAL of the factory round for comparison. I load for target shooting, but this is my first Savage/Shilen combo. Before it was always 700 Remingtons ( my .308's look like 30-06's). I guess I was use to the longer throats of the Remingtons.
You are welcome.
I don't know if all Rems are deeper these days or not, my brother bought their Varmint HB and it definitely is.
Reloading manuals are done using SAAMI or CIP specifications for chamber dimensions and pressures. If yours is SAMMI or CIP then those specs apply, if not they don't.
We may be having a terminology cross here.
Loads and pressure are for sure per SAMMI/CIP and by the book, however, the lead profiles (both how the rifling starts, square, tapered short or long and how far into the rifling it goes before it becomes rifling can and does vary from mfg to mfg.
You can have a super long lead and still have a standard spec chamber that deals with dimensions and pressure.
There are now some tight neck specs that do not meet SAMMI, I will not claim to know what that does ops wise.
Thanks everyone for their input. I loaded 50 rounds, .015" from the lands, with two different powders, in .5 grain differences. Trying to find what it likes. Hopefully I can get to the range this weekend.
My Shilen 243win pre-fit measures 2.740" to the lands with 105amax using the hornady AOL tool.
I now use 107smk and 105 Berger VLD/VLD-hunt & Hybrid because they measure closer to 2.800-2.820" to the lands.
Edit:... Forgot to mention, H-4831 from 41.5gr to 43.5gr is where you should be working up a load. It never failed in many 243's I've shot.
Which Savage magazines are you talking about ?
My factory Savage short action 4rd magazines (243w,7mm08,308w) can handle 2.995" coal while the aics mags I use can handle only 2.870"ish.
Same 4 rounders you mentioned.
I just checked the throat and with the same case and bullet as new barrel measurement and now even with the longer savage mags I couldn't jam a bullet.
Still shoots good great.
Made it out to the range this past weekend, but my plans were changed. Girlfriend wanted to go. I don't mind at all but can't do any serious workups with anyone around me. I do love this gun though. She shot it well also.
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