Reply With QuoteMost shooters I know use an inside neck reamer to remove them.
I seem to be experiencing donuts for the first time. This Lapua brass is on it's 5th cycle in my 22-250 and was most recently shot out of a custom barrel for the first time.
This new barrel is a no-neck turn, Match chambered X-Caliber. The as-shot brass is just large enough in the neck to slide an 80 gr, Amax into, but the heel of the bullet comes to an abrupt stop at the neck/shoulder junction.
I measured the neck wall thickness, it varies from .015 to .016 and I apparently have about .0015 to .002 clearance to a new bullet before I size the brass.
I intend to only neck size when possible, and this would be my first time doing that on this particular brass. I neck sized one brass and seated a bullet. I could not discern any change in seating pressure while pushing the bullet past the donut.
I'm not shooting competition, just having fun slaying targets. But I do want to learn the skills necessary to shoot my best.
What is the remedy here? Shoot as is? Ream the necks? I would rather avoid the hassle of neck turning. Only shooting out to 300 yds so far.
Any input is always much appreciated.
Most shooters I know use an inside neck reamer to remove them.
Last edited by wbm; 09-29-2016 at 09:47 AM.
Ever consider going to lighter (shorter) bullets? Not sure where you're at but what about loading "into" the lands? Seat bullets just above the donut? And as a last resort, neck turn the donut off after you push it to the outside with a turning mandrel. Never had issues (never shot the 22-250) with donuts. Was always able to load into the lands and still have a bunch of bullet in the neck for good contact. Slight donuts formed on my 6 BR but never had seating issues.
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
Neck sizing with a bushing die creates donuts. Many ways to deal with them.
Want to eliminate them. Get a quality full length sizing die.
agree but now your going to get the bushing die guys all riled up LOL!!Originally Posted by m12lrs
and just an FYI...ive outside turned and gotten rid of doughnuts...anneal first and when you expand it pushes the doughnut to the outside...turn and make a cut into the neck/shoulder and the rest will blow out with the next firing...also just an FYI the only time i have had doughnut issues was when i neck sized with a bushing die in a non turn chamber...never had an issue when FL sizing.
These have been FL sized from the beginning. This is the first time I've tried loading them neck sized only using my lee classic 4 die set.
It is a small donut though, if I am assessing it correctly. Bullet slips past during seating with no extra force. If i want to load forward of the donut, I'm going to have to ream the throat deeper or use a shorter bullet, neither of which is particularly attractive to me right now.
Whaddaya think, anneal and FL size again? Continue with load development on this barrel but with fresh brass?
New barrel: new brass
would be my choice
Jack
Interesting results at the range today, shooting at 200 yds. Shot 7 different loads of 5 rounds each varying from .025 off the lands to .005 into the lands. Two of the loads shot into a half inch circle, one .015 off the lands and one touching. Didn't expect that.
Previously this barrel seemed to prefer this bullet (80 grain A-Max) at .015 off.
Any opinions as to why two favorite jump distances? Groups .005 jump on either side were much larger.
Try 5 5 shot groups
See if it is consistent.
I have.always found a.slight jam to be my most accurate seating depth
K&M neck turner tool works for me. Had to get one for the 243 and works great.
"An armed society is a polite society"
"...shall not be infringed" What's the confusion?
More Range report: Using the shot brass from the previous session that went so well, I checked the base to shoulder length and it hadn't grown at all. Measured exactly the same as before, down to half a thou. of an inch. Neck sized it without my usual cleaning, except I did brush the primer pockets free of residue, and loaded the same recipe using 80 gr A-Max and H4350. I also loaded some 77 gr Tipped Match Kings using the same powder charge, and also seated to touch the lands.
The Amax loads shot poorly this time, and also exhibited very smoky necks, something they did not do with the first neck-size only load. The load using the 77's was made using brass being neck sized only for the first time, and they shot clean, no smoky necks, and into small groups.
I am going to start afresh with new brass (thanks, JW), but was wondering if this is a sign I need to anneal this shot brass for the first time? Maybe if I anneal often I can avoid formation of donuts and continue with neck sizing only? Or some combination of neck size and fl size every third, or so, time?
I am trying to avoid the whole neck turning routine, and to that end I'll be contacting X-Caliber about what reamer they used on this barrel and what neck diameter and throat length I'm working with. I've contacted X-Caliber several times via email about exactly what chambering my 6mmBR barrel has, neck size etc. So far I've had trouble getting more than three words out of them at each email exchange. Guess I'll have to give them a call and ask for a reamer print.
Is that a special order tool? Or can I get that as an In stock item somewhere?
If you get the K&M with the carbide pilot you can do both operations at once. Neck turn just to clean up and inside neck ream. You'll probably only have to do it once in the life of the case.
"An armed society is a polite society"
"...shall not be infringed" What's the confusion?
Not uncommon at all to find several jump distances that close up groups, its usually a repeating number like every .025" with a .005" window on either side. Sometimes it can be a very narrow window, sometimes a wide one.
The reason you're not seeing doughnuts with FL (or neck) non bushing dies is leaving the expander button in place, its the expander that sets the final ID dimension (and pushes the donut OUT), the neck portion undersizes it before the expander final sizes. A bushing die does not use the expander at all, leaving a donut in place on the ID. A collet die will also leave it donutless. I'm not a huge fan of Lee products in general but their collet dies work well and are cheap, try a Lee collet die until you need to FL size after several firings.
Now with a donut already established, you may need to remove it via outside turning or inside reaming. Brass flow happens. One of the bad things about a tight neck 'match' chamber is there is no room for round sugary fried snacks.
Thanks, Scott. I received the reamer today, and have been using the Lee FL and neck sizing dies.
Yesterday I shot using new brass and the 77 TMK at 300 yds to great success, so, those donuts gotta go!
I look at most lee stuff as budget gear that gets the job done. That said I buy a lee collet neck die for everything. I've never had the donut issue yet.
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