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Thread: pillar bedding

  1. #1
    flatshooter
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    pillar bedding


    Lesson learned.... ;D I wanted a thumhole anyway ;D

    Larry Potterfeild makes it look so easy there at Midwayusa, and that's the way it is...

    He only uses a drill press, wonder how he gets his holes straight. He mentioned about a blind mag with the eschouchen, start with a twist bit and finish with an end mill and stop at the aschouchen. What about the back pillar?

  2. #2
    Team Savage
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    the power of mass advertising

  3. #3
    flatshooter
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Milling machines seem to be the ticket.

  4. #4
    bigngreen
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    I haven't had much trouble. I hog out a hole with the press then set the stock up level, tape up the barrel to center it in channel attach pillars and Devcon the heck out of things and squish it in, level up the action with a level across the tang area that is flat and let it all get hard and I'm GTG!!

  5. #5
    Basic Member Jamie's Avatar
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    I have done several and while the first one was slow it was difficult. Get the stock level and drill the front hole. Should have enough shoulder left for eutshen to sit on. Tap the pillar in and mark the height to cut. Do the same with the rear, just scribe the notch lines and grab the dremel.

    Or just use pre-notched pillars from Stocky's.
    More shooting, less typing.

  6. #6
    jlcpls
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    C'mon.

    Man up and bed your rifle.....

  7. #7
    Eric in NC
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Done a bunch - never had a problem. Drill press is fine, you can use a reamer if you really want to follow the existing hole exactly (but they are usually far from true anyway).

    BTW - I usually just drill through the estuchen (if there is one) and my pillar becomes the new one (may have to counter sink it a little on the bottom end for the action screw but...).

  8. #8
    jlcpls
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric in NC
    BTW - I usually just drill through the estuchen (if there is one) and my pillar becomes the new one (may have to counter sink it a little on the bottom end for the action screw but...).
    Found some rimmed brass and bronze bushings that work great for that.

    5/8" rim, 3/8" shaft and 1/4" hole. 1-2" overall lengths that I cut to fit. I like the shoulder against the wood as an added function.

    After its all said and done, polish the rim - again, recessed as necessary for the screw head to just remain flush..

  9. #9
    flatshooter
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    I leveled the stock side to side up and down, made sure the press was centered of the exisiting hole... Measured the factory savage pillars, which are .400 which comes to a 19/32 drill... the shoulders are 1/2" so I got a 1/2" fosner bit to drill down the height of the shoulder for a flush fit.... somehow after all said and done the receiver didn't line up with the holes.

    Read an artical from a do it yourself Gunsmith.... I shoulda used a pilot drill and stepped along the way, now it seems I have to "float" the pillars in apoxy. We'll see what happens.

  10. #10
    Basic Member xhogboss's Avatar
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    This is one of the best articles I've found on pillar bedding: http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html
    12 FLV 204 Ruger

  11. #11
    Team Savage
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Floating the pillers in epoxy will let you put the action "anywhere you want it".
    Tape up the action and get it centered in the stock mounted as high as you want it.
    Don't give up now. We know you can do it! ;D
    Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.

  12. #12
    flatshooter
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Too late dudes... I cut to pieces and it's in the trash...thisa way I willn't mess with it no more. ;D

    It'll look like crapola anyway... I aske Savage for eschouchons and they sent me flat washers... ::)
    The pistol grip was too big anyway....

  13. #13
    Basic Member Charleslv's Avatar
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Currently not doing any new stocks because of work but this winter I will write an article on how to. First I use different types of pillars kind of fond of the brownell adjustable pillars (Bottom image) but have used the alluminum ones made for the remington 700 on the brownells site and the savage factory one. As far as eschouchons I like to use the same wood I made the tip and cap from or the in the case of the adjustable ones the end piece of the pillar. Here are some photos.






  14. #14
    BillPa
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    I make my own pillars and use a counter bore with interchangeable pilots to open the screw holes The pilots are sized to follow the original holes. When I make the pillars they're drilled out for a snug screw shank fit , attached to the action with screws then glued in using Devcon PS putty. That eliminates any screw to action alignment issues. The final step, I'll open the holes for screw shank clearance.

    Like Charles, I make escutcheons, but generally out of SS, Aluminum or blued steel. I'll stop the front pillar short so the escutcheon sets flat and makes full contact on it. After the escutcheon is fitted I'll counter bore it for the screw to action length . The rear pillar is fitted flush to the trigger guard inlet.


    Bill

  15. #15
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Good to see you back here charleslv. I was wondering where you were.

  16. #16
    flatshooter
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Good replys... Bill and Charles...

    I guess my mistake was drilling the holes with a twist bit completely through causing the holes to walk, like almost a 1/4 inch. The hole in the reciever were on the edge of the hole in the stock. So an endmill bit is the way to go? Or if I piloted the holes with smaller bits?

    From the job you guys did, it look to me you have a lathe to make your escutcheons?


  17. #17
    BillPa
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by flatshooter
    Good replys... Bill and Charles...

    I guess my mistake was drilling the holes with a twist bit completely through causing the holes to walk, like almost a 1/4 inch. The hole in the reciever were on the edge of the hole in the stock. So an endmill bit is the way to go? Or if I piloted the holes with smaller bits?

    From the job you guys did, it look to me you have a lathe to make your escutcheons?

    Well, using twist bits is OK, but you want to open the holes in steps with progressively larger sizes, not from a 1/4" to 1/2 in one pass for example. Also a bit with less angle, lets say a 30 degree instead of a 19 will bite and grab less in softer materials. Hardware stores generally have lock collars that you can use to control the depth of the cut. If the bit grabs a collar will stop it at what ever depth you have set to before punch'n out the other side. Those screw ups are easily repaired and filled in using whatever goop your using to bed-glue the pillars in with. As long as the exterior of the stock is OK the "wonder goop" can fill in the "UT OHs" that can't be seen.

    Its funny. Back in the late seventies when pillars were rediscovered (Paul Mauser used the in the late 1890s&#39 we used Devcon F or F2. They came back in vogue with the introduction of laid up foam filled fiberglass stocks. Seems when the action screws were tightened they crushed the laminate and the foam, so pillars were the answer to prevent wreaking the stock. We would bed the action as normal usually with F and F2, open the holes, install guide screws, turn the stock upside down then pour either the F or F2 in and around the guide screws. After three days curing time we would turn out the screws and Wallah ....instant perfectly fitted pillars! Then we got lazy and stated using aluminum bar and glue.

    Enough of this old goat's history! ;D

    You can use a lot of different things, custom made pillars or even lamp rod. It doesn't matter as long as what your using doesn't compress or deform under the screw torque, the reason for pillars, they prevent stock material compression and maintain screw torque to keep the action tight and secure in the bedding.

    Yes, having the machines and tools available makes the job easier and quicker, but if you take your time and use some care even with hand tools the job can be accomplished just a well, but you can't attack it like yer gut'n a hog, just take your time, think and go slow.

    Bill

  18. #18
    flatshooter
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    My mistake was not step drilling.... and using a twist bit, now that I'm thinking of it, a twist bit wouldn't be the drill to use for a clean hole, especially in wood. Ah, it's just as well. I have a Boyds laminate stock on the way as we speak.... and am wondering if it'll shoot well without pillars. I don't want to make another mistake on this stock. I have the stock savage pillars here, but am leary about screwing it up, on't for a smith to fix it. I can't afford to screw up.

    think and go slow... doesn't help me when I'm not totally positive what my mistake was. Who knows what my mistake was unless someone watches what I do. Or if someone foots the bill with more stocks... 8) that would be nice... then I'll go at slow like and think...

    One other thing....I can't afford to have the kind of hobby you guys have here....can't afford to make these kinds of mistakes

  19. #19
    BillPa
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Hey, most of us can't afford to make mistakes today. I remember when I bought a brand spank'n new 700 BDL Remington for the huge sum of $142.00. Heck, a good barrel alone goes for double that or more today.

    Why don't you take the conservative approach? Use lamp rod like I mentioned. You don't have to open the existing holes much, its cheap, has sufficient clearance for the action screw shanks and will do everything my fancy custom hi-tech precision pillars will do. Like I said, they only do one thing, prevent stock material compression from screw torque and keep the action firmly planted in the bedding, nothing more.

    Will it shoot without pillars? Most likely it will shot the same with or without them as long as the action stays firmly planted in the bedding, that's the important thing, everything being the same shot to shot.

    I go though the process of straightening, squaring and tuning an action,bedding stocks, rings-mount(s),pillars and other stuff only because I'm from the "If it ain't broke, fix it anyway" camp. ;D Does it mean the beast is going to drill bugholes when I done? Nope, it just hopefully eliminates those issues from the onset if it doesn't. In fact it may have shot better before I got my mitts on it. ;D

    Go ahead and bed the stock then shoot it. If it realistically performs to the level you expect and it's use don't fix it! ;D You can always install pillars later if you think or discover it needs them.

    Bill

  20. #20
    flatshooter
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Use lamp rod like I mentioned. You don't have to open the existing holes much, its cheap, has sufficient clearance for the action screw shanks and will do everything my fancy custom hi-tech precision pillars will do.

    So why, may i ask, do you use them?

  21. #21
    BillPa
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Quote Originally Posted by flatshooter

    So why, may i ask, do you use them?
    I don't, but quite a few guys do. I just happen to have the materials and tools to make them. If I didn't I'd probably go the lamp rod or something similar myself.


  22. #22
    flatshooter
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    Re: leave pillar bedding to a gunsmith

    Seems that's all military rifles have in them, steel tubing.

    If the rifle doesn't improve with this Boyd Laminate.. I'll use the savage pillars.

  23. #23
    Basic Member Charleslv's Avatar
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    Re: pillar bedding

    No lathe here is the down and dirt how I do it.
    1. Line the stock up on the drill press and use an aircraft counterbore
    9/16 from brownell http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=8...FT_COUNTERBORE
    If I am using the Adjustable pillars. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9...EDDING_SLEEVES
    5/8 counter bore if factory or other brand. I like the whole abigger then the pillar so I can adjust depending on the action and make corrections
    2. If using adjustable I make sure that it sticks out 1/16 of in inch so I can file it flush to the stock if using other types I Make sure they are recessed a good 1/4" then bed it in. This done while bedding the whole action and infact the pillars are screwed to the action using tape on the action screws to make sure they are not touching the pillar after the tape is removed.
    3. Then I get a piece of exotic hard wood, ebony rosewood, walnut lots of handgun grip blanks out there on ebay.
    4. I place in a vise on the drill press and drill a 1/4 inch whole then change the bit and use either 9/16 or 5/8 plug cutter not moving the piece of wood I uses these. http://www.hermanscentral.com/produc...fm?sid=FRoogle
    5. I place them with some glass bed material let dry and sand them to shape of the stock
    Now the back i Usually use a standard alluminum pillar but will notch or I by the factory ones and fit them.


    A trick I use when setting up the stock for the counter bores is place them on vise and line it up by using a drill bit to line up the wholes before I run the counter bore. I use a small bit then what is drilled on the stock.

    Like I said I will do an article next stock I do.

  24. #24
    flatshooter
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    Re: pillar bedding

    Thanks Charles.... I see the counter bore bit, and how brownells states that it elimates wondering. That seems that was my problem. I'm glad you pointed that out and gave me a solution.... ;D

    So that aircraft counter bore bit is two part....? So you can have a shank and change tips?

  25. #25
    BillPa
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    Re: pillar bedding

    Quote Originally Posted by flatshooter
    So that aircraft counter bore bit is two part....? So you can have a shank and change tips?
    Yep....this is a 1/2" for example. Size or make the pilots to closely fit the existing holes in the stock. They're a little less expensive from MSC and other places than Brownells, especially if you get the imported ones. Make sure you get the long ones (4.5") for room in the inletting, chuck clearance and so you can see what your doing.

    http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...mber=257Pmode=

    Bill

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