Reply With QuoteLooks good. I like the 16X better even for out to 1000. Things that you did not price out is the Magazines and the Buttstock.
Savage Hog Hunter in 223: $500 locally
MDT LSS Chassis: $400
SWFA Fixed 20x scope: $300
Warne Maxima Weaver style steel two piece scope base: $30
Leupold PRW Steel Weaver style rings: $70
Total: $1300
Anything here in that's a bad idea? My goal is for this rifle to shoot in 1/2 inch at 100 yards using handloads with match bullets (69gr SMK or similar). Max range I'd likely use this rifle would be 500 yards. It wouldn't be out of the question for me to use it in tactical rifle matches either, though I expect I might rebarrel it for that sort of thing.
Edit: my rough math says this thing should come out around 9.50 lbs. 7.25 lbs for stock rifle, subtract 1.75 for the factory stock, add 2.25 for chassis and buttstock, 1.75 lbs for scope and mounts. Since at 9 lbs you're crossing the line from rifles to artillery, is there anywhere I could save weight beyond the obvious option of not using a chassis? And if you're wondering, the point of the chassis is so I don't have to deal with any stock bedding or forearm strengthening drama. And because the B&C medalist stock with bedding block is even heavier than the LSS chassis, at least according to both manufacturer's websites.
Looks good. I like the 16X better even for out to 1000. Things that you did not price out is the Magazines and the Buttstock.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
If you can wait a month or two for a Cabelas sale, you might pick up a model 12FV as your base rifle. 26 inch varmint barrel, varmint accutrigger (lighter than std. accutrigger) and pay a whole lot less if you time it with a Savage rebate offer.
Here's what I bought last November:
12FV in 223 = $349
Rebate= -$100
Add a $180 revolution laminated stock, EGW base for $50, acceptable glass for $250, bi-pod for $80.
For less than $900 got an extremely accurate rifle that will shoot hand loads in the zero's and ones at 100 yds. on a good day. Albeit in the hands of my son, with his young eyes and loads of patience waiting for the right moment to break the shot.
Originally Posted by Texas10
I'll take it under advisement, but the chief reason I'm looking at the Hog Hunter is because I don't want a barrel quite that massive.
But you say you might shoot some tactical matches right ??
The FV12 is a heavy barrel, but it's a good gun. In OEM status, it's barrel heavy, but with a different stock, it may balance out. I have a 223 & 204 in the FV12 they shoot good with factory ammo. Will shoot better with hand loads I'm sure when I get to it.
It's not out of the question. I didn't realize 26" barrels were used in that application.
Only issue I see is the fixed 20 power. I like high power scopes but target acquisition with 20 power is gonna be pretty annoying and there are instances where you will wish you had less than 20 power because of weather, (mirage, light acquisition ect,). I would due something variable power, or fixed around 10, 15 tops.
SWFA is a good scope for the dollar, no doubt about it. Rugged quality. I agree it is too much power for the application.
Might look at Primary Arms 4-14x44 with First Focal Plane reticle. Inexpensive and has a lot of useable features.
26" is an incredibly common tactical length for comp use. most go short barrels when using a suppressor. I would opt for the 12fv as well. truly great rifle, and HAS THE BETTER TRIGGER! don't overlook that. the fv has the varmint/tactical trigger, the hog hunter does not. it's a massive improvement for target/tactical use.
As someone who owns the swfa 20x SS, i vote for the 16x as well. I wish I would have gone with the 16x. at that power, it's more clear, brighter, and you really don't lose much magnification, especially if you are staying under 500 yards.
I would also recommend the warne rings to go with your warne base. the warne products are top notch. the fixed steel rings are very inexpensive, and are built great. would save a bit of money over the leupold as well.
another thing, have you messed with the MDT chassis before? Most of the shooters I know who do competitive or frequent shooting really don't like it for it's ergnomics and size. you might be happier with a B&C inletted. getting that with CDI bottom metal would be about the same price. But, the chassis/stock choice is absolute personal preference. If I were shopping for a chassis, I would go for a PDC. They feel incredible and are built like tanks, and they actually come with a great adjustable butt stock, whereas you have to add your own on the MDT, which will even out the cost difference. PDC built for function, where it seems that MDT may be catering towards the "tacticool" group. just my opinion.
here would be my recommendation....
Savage 12FV 223 - $420
PDC Gen 4 Chassis - $675
SWFA SS 16x - $300
Warne Base - $30
Warne Fixed rings - $35
$1460 total.
You can trim off dollars by getting used/open box/demo items. SWFA has their sample list, watch that. And I got warne rings off amazon warehouse deals, open box for a huge discount. The weaver tactical scope bases are also solid and can be found for under $20 on amazon. Coupons for cabelas will also trim down the cost on the 12FV.
What's the weight on the PDC chassis? The MDT was attractive because it weighed even less than a B&C medalist.
Really, the *only* reason I'm looking at a chassis is to avoid stock bedding and fitment drama. If it weren't for that I'd be perfectly happy with the factory tupperware, assuming I could find some way to mod it for detachable mags, and I could stand to wait on that until later.
As you noted, the MDT weight doesn't include the grip, buffer tube, and stock that you have to install on it to make it functional. Part of the reason it's so light is because it's not a complete unit. If you add a magpul PRS stock (which has similar adjustability as the PDC) it's another 1.855 lbs, and then another 4oz buffer tube and a 3 oz grip (milspec). that adds 2.3lbs on the base chassis, with no mags or ammo. so the overall chassis weight without mags or ammo is realistically in the 4-4.5lb range. If you plan to use a traditional, cheap, milspec AR stock, you will need some mods or purchases to make it usable with an optic. You simply won't get the proper sight line with it.
I'm seeing the varmint/tactical B&C (medalist?) coming in at 3.25lbs, the M40 at 2.75lbs...with the added hardware, may be lighter, and blocked so no bedding.
This review says the weight for the entire PDC is right around 5lbs. http://www.snipercentral.com/pdc-custom-stocks/
They are a more milled out now, with the later versions, so I'm sure the versions 3 and 4 are lighter than that.
If you get the 12FV, you can make it work, and if weight is that important, they don't weigh anything. And unlike the hog hunter, they have a wide fore-end, which is nice. The tan stock is a standard FV stock with a kydex riser, and the white is a standard tactical accustock with kydex cheek riser.
I'm only throwing my opinion out because I was right where you are not long ago. I was researching this stuff like crazy. I even looked at the LSS chassis, and was steered away by a profesional PRS shooter, and his wife, who is also a professional PRS shooter. One directed me towards a manner's stock with bottom metal, the other directed me towards the PDC. at about half the price, I'm opting for the PDC, although I greatly prefer the look and feel of a traditional stock.
I would go with the .223 Hog Hunter. IMO, you don't need a 26" barrel and the extra weight for your intended use. Take a look at the new Sightron S-TAC 3-16x42 MOA scope. You won't find another scope with better glass, fool-proof tracking, 30mm tube, tactical turrets and side focus for the money on the market today. The Burris 30mm Signature Zee rings are hard to beat. Replace the standard Accutrigger spring with a varmint/target spring ($7.00) and you can get the Accutrigger pull down to around 1.5 lbs. The factory tupperware stock that comes on the hog hunter is crap and will need to be replaced. You can always ask your local gun dealer if they will match online pricing; Buds Gun Shop ($457.00) for Hog Hunter in 223.
The picture below shows a Hog Hunter in .308 with the Sightron S-TAC 3-16x42 scope, 30mm Burris Signature Zee Rings, varmint/target Accutrigger spring and $82.00 (Numrich) Savage SA, CF, DBM factory hardwood stock. I added a 1" Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad and painted with Duracoat base coat and Krylon webbing. It has a Savage metal trigger guard and DBM frame assembly with a 10R Dark Eagle magazine. It shoots sub 0.5" groups with hand loads.
I can't disagree. The Sightron's are awesome glass (better overall than the SWFA SS line, I've owned both), and the zee sigs sit on top of the majority of my rifles! the new 30mm have 4 bolt closures, and they hold great. The big bonus I see of the hog hunter is that threaded barrel ready for a recoil reducing brake! That is very nice.
I would recommed buying AI compatible bottom metal though, as future mag purchases will save you big money over dark eagle mags. the MDT and magpul AI compatible mags are only $39....
That's a fine rifle you have there, sir. Where did you get a hardwood stock for a Hog Hunter? What mods were needed to get it to accept detachable mags?I would go with the .223 Hog Hunter. IMO, you don't need a 26" barrel and the extra weight for your intended use. Take a look at the new Sightron S-TAC 3-16x42 MOA scope. You won't find another scope with better glass, fool-proof tracking, 30mm tube, tactical turrets and side focus for the money on the market today. The Burris 30mm Signature Zee rings are hard to beat. Replace the standard Accutrigger spring with a varmint/target spring ($7.00) and you can get the Accutrigger pull down to around 1.5 lbs. The factory tupperware stock that comes on the hog hunter is crap and will need to be replaced. You can always ask your local gun dealer if they will match online pricing; Buds Gun Shop ($457.00) for Hog Hunter in 223.
The picture below shows a Hog Hunter in .308 with the Sightron S-TAC 3-16x42 scope, 30mm Burris Signature Zee Rings, varmint/target Accutrigger spring and $82.00 (Numrich) Savage SA, CF, DBM factory hardwood stock. I added a 1" Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad and painted with Duracoat base coat and Krylon webbing. It has a Savage metal trigger guard and DBM frame assembly with a 10R Dark Eagle magazine. It shoots sub 0.5" groups with hand loads.
I know the B&C M40 stock is configured to accept Savage factory detachable mags, which would be fine if I was putting a 10pc in it that's already set up for that.
I'm starting to think I'm best off starting with a Hog Hunter and using the B&C M40 stock, and skip the chassis idea altogether. This seems viable as long as I can reasonably expect good accuracy from the setup relying solely on the B&C stock's aluminum bedding block. Might use the money freed up by "downgrading" to a B&C stock from an LSS chassis and get the nicer Sightron scope.
Edit: Let me add something. I've probably not been too specific on what I'm looking for, and nothing is quite so annoying as trying to help someone when they don't tell you specifically what the goal is.
What I'm trying to do is loosely (very loosely) based on the BOPR concept that came out on Sniper Central's website. You can Google "bug out precision rifle" and it should take you to the article. What I'm trying to do isn't exactly like that, but similar. I'm not looking for a light weight sporter rifle, or a heavy bench gun, but trying to fit into a sweet spot in the middle. Something with a heavy enough barrel to shoot very good groups, but not so massive you'd never should up and fire offhand.
What I'm trying to do is really similar to an SDM rifle you see implemented using the AR-15 platform. Now, I love ARs quite a bit...I just love bolt guns a little more (I find that the triggers tend to be better with bolt guns, unless you spend serious money on a Geiselle or something...and even the high end AR triggers can't compete with a Savage on lock time). So I guess in my mind what I'm envisioning is a bolt action SDM rifle. I think of it more as a skirmisher and/or general purpose survival rifle. Also seems to be similar in concept to the Scout Rifle.
The heavy profile short 20" barrel of the Hog Hunter (and the Model 10pc for that matter) fits into this concept. In 223 especially I think it makes sense. 223 / 556 does not benefit enough, velocity wise, going from 20" to 26" to justify the bulkier barrel, especially when I'm trying to be reasonably mobile. It satisfies the accuracy AND weight requirement, and further, shortish heavy barrels are usually best for good offhand shooting.
you will have to have a gunsmith inlet a non-inletted stock for bottom metal, and I have been quoted outrage prices for that. ($200).
I don't think you would have a drop in accuracy with the B&C over the LSS. Too many variables, both have aluminum blocks....would come down to you and how the stock fits ya, I would imagine. Going with a nicer scope will probably be your best bet in the long run. I have NEVER wished I had skimped on optics for other gear. and the times I have, I've regretted it.
keep in mind, if you get a chassis, you don't need bottom metal. if you get the B&C, you will need to purchase bottom metal for whatever mags you are intending to use.
edit for your edit: reading your edit, may I recommend the FCP-SR in either a 6.5creedmore or 308? It has the accustock, bottom metal, scope base, and a 10 round mag. factory mags from savage can be found for around $50-80. can be had for mid to upper $500 range. throw a scope on, you are golden. they can be bought with a medium contour, fluted, threaded barrel in 20" or 24". solid rifles.
http://grabagun.com/search/?q=fcp-sr
if you are going 223, then that info is worthless. dark eagle mags are also out of the question, as I think they are only in large rifle short and long for savage model 10/110's. You cannot get a savage factory 10 round mag for 223 that I am aware of. So you would need AI compatible metal to use AI mags to get 10 rounds.
I'm going to be doing 223 for this one for sure. It's a long term cost thing. I can handload match grade 223 very economically. The largest long term cost of any firearm is the ammunition, so this is where the largest savings is realized. I am aware that 223 is hard to shoot accurately at very long range due to wind messing with it, but if I'm honest with myself, I'm not (yet) a good enough shooter to shoot at that kind of range regardless of the cartridge I'm shooting.
According to B&C's website, on the M40 stock: "Drop in fit for Savage Model 10 and 12 with 4.4 inch short action and factory detachable magazine, heavy barrel, bottom release uses SKU #1012, top bolt release uses SKU #1014"
The Hog Hunter is top bolt release but does not have the factory DBM. If I'm interpreting this right, the M40 stock should already be inletted for the DBM. All I'd need is the factory bottom metal for DBM from Savage. Again, unless my interpretation is completely wrong here. Sounds like a question to send to B&C.
Any Savage factory SA, CF, BBR or TBR, blind or DBM inlet stock can be used to replace your Hog Hunter Tupperware. I used a discontinued/surplus Savage factory SA, CF, BBR, DBM hardwood stock. They can be purchased online from Numrich Gun Parts for around $82. I used a dremel tool and sanding wheel to carefully inlet a slot in the wood stock for the HH's top bolt release action sear arm. I used a dowel rod and sand paper to open up the barrel channel and free float the HH barrel. I replaced the hard rubber recoil pad with a 1" SMALL Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad and used a dremel sanding wheel and sand paper for final fitting before applying the Duracoat. You can purchase the metal trigger guard, DBM frame assembly and bottom mag cap direct from Savage Arms Parts. Aftermarket bottom metal is also now available for 10 round AI mags. I went with the Savage OEM bottom metal so that I could also use the standard 4 round Savage DBM. I bedded the action and recoil lug using Devcon Plastic Steel Epoxy available at the local hardware store. The B&C M40 stock sounds like your best bet, since you don't want to fool with the DIY bedding job. Otherwise, I would suggest taking a look at the Boyd's ProVarmint stock with optional adjustable cheek riser. But that would require minor fitting, pillar and bedding work for best accuracy potential and most likely weigh slightly more than the B&C stock options.
Last edited by jpdown; 09-30-2016 at 12:06 PM.
you are right on all counts. that is their only tactical/varmint savage stock that comes inletted already. but, as stated before, with savage DBM, you will be limited to 4-5 round mags, no 10 rounders.
FORGOT TO MENTION!!! PTG bottom metal supposedly has the same footprint as savage factory DBM, and with side release you can get it for $128, and it is AI mag compatible! that would be the most economical deal! should fit right in the B&C m40
http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/savag...ealth-dbm.html
You also forgot to mention the Dark Eagle Mags and CDI, who will inlet your stock to fit both the Savage and their bottom metal that uses the AICS magazines.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Last I checked, dark eagle did not do 10 round 223 mags. I have searched for 10 round factory dbm fitting mags for a while and can't find them for a 223. Please link them if you know where to get them.
The m40 is already inletted and should accept the ptg with little to no work.
Slightly off topic question.
I found a Savage 10pc in 223 locally. Same barrel as the hog hunter with digicam accustock. The guy has it marked $739 though he usually comes off his sticker price some as long as you aren't a tool while in his shop. Would be about the same money as dropping the Hog Hunter in a B&C and I liked the balance. So, AccuStock vs B&C Medalist with bedding block....is one better than the other?
Personal preference. PC has lower bolt release, and there are probably a few more parts for upper release like the hog hunter has. Upper release parts are typically cheaper than lower release parts. Accustock should theoretically be similar in accuracy, but it's ergonomics are much different. You will need a cheek riser on the accustock to get a scope line of sight. B&c may require some sort of riser as well. Accustocks are really well built factory stocks though. Take your pick, both should be accurate shooters.
All I care about is the accuracy potential. I can deal with details like risers and cheek pieces after the fact...I probably won't know which stuff I'll need until I've shot it anyway.
I picked up a Hog Hunter 308 barrel that was new, put a Harrell's brake on it and installed in a LA. It shoots better than some of my custom barrels. Right around an inch at 200 yards and with almost every loading. Keeping them in 10 inches at 500. You may want to rethink your plans. Brake makes the 308 about like a 243.
Bill
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