HELP with buggered up threads

**jpx2rk** · 08-20-2016, 10:41 AM

Don't know if this question or request for help belongs here or somewhere else, but here goes:

Was trying to mount the one piece DNZ scope base on my 12 FV, used alcohol to clean/degrease the thread holes on the action and the screws. 3 of the 4 holes are ok, but the very front threaded hole on the action (you can see the barrel threads in the bottom of this hole) is apparently buggered up. There was lots of gunk in this hole and I used a Q tip with alcohol to soften it up and clean, and a wooden toothpick to try and remove the gunk, etc. Thought I had it and was trying to just thread a short screw into this hole to make sure it was clean and the screw would go in smoothly.

I used a little bit of force but not much, but the black coating on the screw threads and the threaded hole are now a bit on the shiney side. I've read where the front screw may be a bit long and needs to be shorten to fit properly but I don't think that is my problem as the shiney threads are just the 1st and 2nd round of threads on both the screw and the threaded hole on the action.

What do I need to do to clean these threads up. I'm hoping that a die is all I need, but I've never used one to clean up threads on gun or anything else. Been lucky I guess.

Please be specific on the parts/tools I may or do need to clean up the threads on the action and the screw. I don't think the threads are messed up beyond repair, but they definitely need some attention. Any help is appreciated.

Jim

**Robinhood** · 08-20-2016, 11:17 AM

In my opinion you have a quandary. A 6-48tpi tap will work but seeing that the front base screw hole is so shallow you should probably pull the barrel to tap through. There is what is called a bottom tap (tap sets normally have three taps in them, the "starter or taper" the second a "plug" and the last the "bottom") and those are good for full threading all the way down near the bottom,but the will hit the barrel threads and still not complete the process to the bottom of the hole. You must be careful to hold the tap in the same axis of the hole. In the even it does get messed up a smith can always open them up to the next size.

**Texas10** · 08-20-2016, 11:46 AM

That's exactly what I found in my new 12FV, 22-250 when I tried to mount the scope rail. I was thinking there was some thread sealant squeeze from mounting the barrel, not that I'm sure Savage uses thread sealant. Tried cleaning as you did, but to no avail.

Bought the bottoming tap, took 30 seconds to clear out the hole. The screw ran down cleanly until it hit the barrel threads. Mounted the EGW rail with no problem.

**RC20** · 08-20-2016, 01:32 PM

Probably goes without saying but get a new screw as well.

**FW Conch** · 08-20-2016, 02:07 PM

From what You have said, You may not have a problem at all. That stuff in the front hole is likely the huckypuck that Savage puts on the barrel threads at the factory. A little bit of shine on Your screw threads just means a snug fit and is not unusual. Sounds like You've got most of that gunk out of the hole, so just put some oil on the screw threads and work it gently back and forth and see if it goes in easily. Likely it will.

And Yes, you want that screw short enough that it does not bottom out: 1. so it doesn't mar the barrel threads: and 2. so the screw will hold your rail down snug.

**jpx2rk** · 08-20-2016, 04:02 PM

Hmm, don't really know which way to go now with conflicting answers. I'll have to figure out some way to magnify the threads and such to see what the threads really look like. Thanks for the advice. Gives me some info to move forward.

Can someone give me an approximate depth the screw should go in without the base in place.?

Is there any place to get another 6x48 1/4" long screw other than from the mfr???

**Robinhood** · 08-20-2016, 04:51 PM

I don't know If I read conflict. Try to use a bottom tap first. Don't force it. Take it slow and easy. Buy two or three.

If you run into issues you might end up removing the barrel to clean the threads better. You can also use pressurized cleaners and or air to help remove the offending material.( protect your scope and stock.)

I have been known to grind a tap on the end to get more threads in a shallow hole. If you do that take it slow or it will anneal and or break. Keep it supported while grinding.

**Texas10** · 08-20-2016, 07:34 PM

I'd ordered my base from EGW and simply email them about my predicament. They send two full sets of screws to me gratis. Arrived like two days later. Talk about Customer Service!

**jpx2rk** · 08-20-2016, 07:53 PM

The reason I said "conflict" was based on what FW Conch said about maybe not having a problem at all while other comments indicate using a bottom tap to clean the threads up, that's all. Nothing negative towards anyone, I'm just reading two different opinions, that's all, conflict was probably the wrong word to use.

I appreciate all the replies and advice.

**RC20** · 08-20-2016, 08:59 PM

I would call it two different approaches, one is safer than the other.

Small threads bugger up too easy, so I am with Robinhood, tap it first, does not hurt anything and can save a lot of grief. Pull the barrel off if you need to go all the way through as he suggests.

So the tap is much more conservative and safe than trying to wiggle it in and out. How did the rest of the screws look? Pull one out and compare. Clean out the hole as noted and see if it goes in easily.

What is a bit of tension to one guy can be gorilla tight to another. I worked with a guy, loved him dearly, but he would pout a nut on a fastener that would take 6 men and a mule to get off. He was not malicious at all, just very strong (he reached down and pulled me up off a floor one day one handed and I 210 lb at the time. ) You have to be there in person to be able to figure out what one guy means a bit tight vs oh my god this is awfull.

I have never been sorry when I took the safer more conservative approach, I have been sorry all too many times when I did not.

That's not a knock on anyone, just my take

**foxx** · 08-20-2016, 10:57 PM

I am with Conch. Nothing wrong with being careful, but you gotta pick your risks. Sometimes it's worth actually crossing the street even though a speeding car/truck MIGHT come out from nowhere. Moreover, in this case, even if the screw was a bit too tight and "ruins" your threads it ain't no big deal to fix. That being said, it is NOT an issue. I have pulled barrels off of and rebuilt dozens of model 12 fv's the past couple years. They all have gunky crud in the threads of that front hole. Clean it out with solvent if you like. pick it out pick a toothpick or something and lube it then turn your screw into the dang hole. If it bottoms out on the barrel threads, remove the screw and grind/file it a bit shorter till it doesn't. Rubbing a little bit of bluing off of the threads of the screw you turn into it is no big deal. It is not a sign of bad threading or anything else.

Question: Why are you suddenly worried about the threads on THIS screw? Unless you make a practice of inserting and removing screws so you can inspect their finish after doing so in order to determine how wel they fit, how do you know all the screws in your rifles aren't affected the same way? It is a Base screw, nothing more.

**Robinhood** · 08-21-2016, 12:23 AM

It's all good. Let us know how it turns out.

**foxx** · 08-21-2016, 08:45 AM

Oops. Sorry, all.

I was being a jerk. Don't know why.

**jpx2rk** · 08-21-2016, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by RC20

I would call it two different approaches, one is safer than the other.

Small threads bugger up too easy, so I am with Robinhood, tap it first, does not hurt anything and can save a lot of grief. Pull the barrel off if you need to go all the way through as he suggests.

So the tap is much more conservative and safe than trying to wiggle it in and out. How did the rest of the screws look? Pull one out and compare. Clean out the hole as noted and see if it goes in easily.

What is a bit of tension to one guy can be gorilla tight to another. I worked with a guy, loved him dearly, but he would pout a nut on a fastener that would take 6 men and a mule to get off. He was not malicious at all, just very strong (he reached down and pulled me up off a floor one day one handed and I 210 lb at the time. ) You have to be there in person to be able to figure out what one guy means a bit tight vs oh my god this is awfull.

I have never been sorry when I took the safer more conservative approach, I have been sorry all too many times when I did not.

That's not a knock on anyone, just my take

The other three screws and holes are fine, they will screw in/out with little to no resistance, and no black finish is removed. A non-marred screw will go into the front hole (the buggered one) about one full turn using fingers only before it stops cold. The marred/buggered screw will go into a "clean mounting hole" about one full turn using fingers only and stop cold.

I'll have to order some taps and stuff to get the buggered hole cleaned up and go from there. Pretty sure I've got some spare screws in my junk box.
Thanks for the help and advice.

**jpx2rk** · 08-21-2016, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by foxx

Oops. Sorry, all.

I was being a jerk. Don't know why.

I agree.

All is good

**foxx** · 08-21-2016, 08:51 AM

^^^^Well, there you go, then. It WAS buggered for REAL. :)

**WV1951** · 08-21-2016, 04:21 PM

Interesting. I had the very same problem with one of the mounting holes on my 12FV, and can't remember which one, but I believe it may have been the front one. Figured it was an anomaly. The others were clean and easy to thread, but the one had a bunch of gunk in it. Even after cleaning, the screw still did not want to go in easily. I just used the screw like a tap, turning back and forth and working my way to the bottom, all the while, removing several times and re-cleaning the threads. After several in and outs, it cleaned up the threads and tightened nicely. Just another Savage quality control issue, that comes with turning them out too fast.

**FW Conch** · 08-21-2016, 04:25 PM

^ Right On ;-)) ^

**jpx2rk** · 08-26-2016, 04:22 PM

UPDATE:
The taps that I ordered to clean up the buggered threads arrived yesterday and this morning, so i got to work and got the threads all cleaned up with the exception of the very front hole on both of the 12 FV's I got a while back. The taps worked great, but with the barrel threads at the bottom of the front holes, the taps did not really do much good on these holes since the taps had too much taper (even a bottom tap) to clean the threads up completely.

I was able to work the screws in and out with minor binding using cutting oil, and then cleaned them good, then mounted the one piece DNZ mounts and got all the screws snugged down. Should get the scope mounted this weekend and bore sighted, then off to the range. LOL

Thanks for all the help.

**Robinhood** · 08-27-2016, 06:58 PM

The taps worked great, but with the barrel threads at the bottom of the front holes, the taps did not really do much good on these holes since the taps had too much taper (even a bottom tap) to clean the threads up completely.

Now where have I heard that before?

**jpx2rk** · 08-27-2016, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Robinhood

Now where have I heard that before?

Either on page 1 of this thread, or one of the voices in your head.

**Robinhood** · 08-27-2016, 08:45 PM

Experience brother. Now you have it.

**jpx2rk** · 08-28-2016, 08:48 AM

You are correct, now I know what to do for the "next time", it was a good learning experience for, a bit frustrating at times as I had never run into this issue before. I'm limited in my "gunsmithing" experience, but with lots of reading and forums like this, I did enjoy it and have the satisfaction of knowing I got it done and can do it again if needed.

Hope to get the scopes mounted, bore sighted and to the range this week.

And thanks again to all the people who took the time to help a newbie out.

**Texas10** · 08-28-2016, 12:56 PM

Taps come in all types of sizes and flavors, you just have to find the right one for the job. I offer this link to some interesting reading for your future reference. http://www.newmantools.com/taps/taptech.htm

**RC20** · 09-29-2016, 08:49 PM

Ironically I just had this happen as well. So I am putting it out as an admittance of a lesson I did not think I needed but did. Egg on my face, but I think its worht while to say so that even someone with 40+ years of working on machinery (big and small) can fall into it.

Changed barrel, something got in the threads at the top, as it had worked fine before I was a bit to aggressive before I hit that, this is not good point.
sometimes knowing something is not good because you don't know what you thought you did. Front one of course.

I call it relative truth, that can change on a dime.

And as noted, you can't get a tap in to clean up even the top threads (and no taps of that thread pitch in town, Midway had one and low cost and came in today)
Annoying as hell they have not moved to a standard one by now (or at least common standard)

Its cleaned up and fine now, sometimes you need to learn your lessons again.

Good news is that alarms went off before serious damage, not quite as soon as they should have but soon enough.