6.5 Creedmoor problems - should I send back to Savage

maxwell333 · 08-18-2016, 08:13 PM

Just got back from second session at the range with my new 10T 6.5 Creedmoor. First outing was with factory 120 Amax and was pretty bad. Terrible groups at 100. Today was with hand loads 140 gr. Barnes Match Burners and even worse results. Scope is known, good mount, barrel is floated, action screws at 60# per Accustock specs, etc. I'm a fair shot and was a Marine Sniper years ago and shoot 1K fairly accurately. THEN I start getting misfires about every third shot so just called it quits. Got home and used a Forster go/no go gauge on it and doesn't come close to closing on the GO gauge!! Would appreciate input to either send back to Savage or get a smith to check it our and reset the head space? Any advice would be appreciated!!

**762Armo** · 08-18-2016, 08:21 PM

I'd check the scope/mounts one more time before sending it in, just in case. But it doesn't sound too good. What were the groupings?

maxwell333 · 08-18-2016, 08:29 PM

Groupings were weird to say the least. Bug hole with first two shots followed by 4" right and high, then another in the 1/4" from bug hole then one 3" left. Just really weird with no consistancy? Double checked scope and it is tight and a known "really" good scope. I think its the head space problem. Do you know if Savage will fix or?? Should I call them?

**J.Baker** · 08-18-2016, 09:06 PM

How's your fired brass compare to your unfired or resized brass? How much are you having to bump the shoulder?

You say you can't close the bolt on the go gauge - something's up there as you wouldn't be able to chamber factory ammo or your handloads if the chamber were that short. Sure they sent you the right gauge? Have you verified it's within spec? Wouldn't be the first time someone on here got a gauge that wasn't quite right.

The ignition issue could actually indicate excessive headspace allowing the round to move forward in the chamber when the firing pin strikes it - lessening the energy delivered to the primer. You didn't indicate how the primers looked on those rounds that didn't fire. Was it a light strike? No strike? Since this didn't happen with the factory loads and only happened with your reloads, you might be bumping the shoulder back to much when you resize.

Having toured the factory I can tell you right now no rifle would ever get out the door with improper headspace - they check it way to many times throughout the build and testing process for that to ever happen.

maxwell333 · 08-18-2016, 09:22 PM

Thanks Furious - answers are: The rifle has less than 80 rounds through it. Used factory ammo (40 rounds of 120gr. Amax) for breakin which was not grouping at all. Then used the Hornady fire-formed brass for the 140 gr Burger Match I shot today. Brass was trimmed and neck sized. No shoulder bumping was needed as brass was only once fired?

The Go gauge is a Forster I used swaping a barrel on a 308. Specs says its good for 243 260 264 308 etc. it would not close.

Ignition problem was intermittent till I had 4 misfires in a row. The primer was not even touched??? That's when I quit!!

I have two other Savage rifles that shoot sub-moa at 600 yds all day. Really disappointed with this one! Any ideas please let me know.

**J.Baker** · 08-18-2016, 10:02 PM

If you put side pressure on the safety blade of the AccuTrigger it will trip the safety mechanism and acts exactly like a misfire only the firing pin isn't released by the sear which requiring you to have to recock the bolt. This can trip up (no pun intended) those new to it on occasion.

Try the gauge again, making sure the extractor claw snaps over the rim.

**J.Baker** · 08-18-2016, 10:08 PM

Something didn't sound right on the gauge and I was right. The .308 gauge won't work for the Creedmoor as it's too long and the CM has less body taper.

L to R: .308 Win, 6.5 Creedmoor, .243 Win, 6.5 Grendel, .223 Rem.

**EdKin** · 08-18-2016, 10:15 PM

I'm not 100% positive but the 6.5 Creedmoor is a different headspace guage than the 243, 308, 260. PTG lists different product number for them. What bases are on it the factory ones? If so they are not great quality. Have you checked to make sure the bases are tight and the front screw is not hitting the barrel? If the primers were not even hit I think it is how you are pulling the accu-trigger. If not pulled straight back the trigger does not release the sear if I remember correctly on that one, it has been discussed many time on the board. See 2 posts up we were typing at the same time, this is what I was referring too.

**drybean** · 08-18-2016, 10:15 PM

308 headspace gauge & a 6.5 creedmoor headspace gauge are two different animals

maxwell333 · 08-18-2016, 11:50 PM

Did some quick research on the Forster gauge and some say yes to working with 6.5 and a LOT more say no so I'm wrong on the go gauge!! But the misfires don't make much sense as I have two other Savages with Accutriggers and I don't believe they have ever misfired in the many hundreds of rounds I've shot. Could be that I was getting crazy because of the groupings being so wild? The groupings are all over the place and I know the scope and mount are good so only leaves the Accustock or the barrel? Who the heck knows! Too old and too late to worry about it tonight!! THANK YOU ALL FOR THE INPUT REALLY APPRECIATE IT!

**762Armo** · 08-19-2016, 02:56 AM

Try another scope. Just to be 100% sure that is not the issue. You say it's a good scope, but there still a tiny chance that it's not.

**LoneWolf** · 08-19-2016, 07:04 AM

If you were a Marine then you'll appreciate this coming from a brother.

1. You definitely can not check the headspace of the Creedmoor with a 308 gauge.

2. What "known" good scope do you have on the rifle.

3. How did you size your brass on your reloads.

4. What do the primers look like on your reloads.

5. What mounting configuration is your scope set up in? Base, rings, etc.

6. Did you do any load development for the rifle or just load and go?

We can help you out here, but we need the details.

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**dranrab** · 08-19-2016, 08:10 AM

With the misfires resulting from a primer that wasn't even touched, you need to send that gun back. I am a novice of sorts, but I don't see what a scope or load could have to do with that.

**LoneWolf** · 08-19-2016, 08:15 AM

That's why I want to know how he sized his brass. He never said misfires occurred with the factory ammo.

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maxwell333 · 08-19-2016, 09:29 AM

Hi All - In answer to Lone Wolf: 1) Head space - see my message above. On headspace guage I was wrong. 2) Scope is Sightron S111 off 308 that shoots sub-moa at 600 so scope is good. 3) See thread above. Once fired Hornady brass, trimmed and neck sized. The rifle also did the same scattering with 120 gr. Amax factory loads when doing breakin so factory ammo was no better than 140 gr hand loads. Was shooting a 10 set 3 shot ladder when above occured. 4) Primers were CCI 200 and were fine. 5) Rail that came with the rifle and new high quality rings. All screws blue loc tight and torqued correctly. 6) See above 10 set 3 shot ladder- was doing normal ladder with IMR 4350 in .3 grain increments.

Looking at the barrel from yesterdays shooting there seems to be inconsistant copper fouling at the muzzel end of the barrel. Copper fouling can be seen on 4 of the R5 lands but is not apparent on the 5th. Could be the barrel? All my other rifles are bedded but I am unfamiliar with the accustock so just torqued it to 60# per Savage specs. Maybe issue there. I think I'll take it to my smith next week and see what he has to say. I'll report back on this. Thanks to all who responded!!

**bearcatrp** · 08-19-2016, 07:21 PM

I sent mine back due to poor performance with 140 ELD-M and 129 SST commercial ammo. They said it was within specs of 0.9 groups but has been shooting good since getting it back. Send it back!

**samven** · 08-21-2016, 11:12 AM

For what its worth, I dont think you have a headspace problem. The factory ammo is usually a couple thousands short of spec and the fireformed and neck
sized should have taken care of that anyway even if the chamber were 10 thousands over. I dont think you are pulling the trigger to the side if you shoot 1/2 moa.
The unmarked primers would be my main concern. Inconsistent primer strikes can screw up your grouping, yours goes
way beyond just inconsistent. My guess would be the bolt assembly either has a short firing pin (unlikely), a weak spring, improper assembly
and adjustment or there is some foreign material in there. If you feel comfortable with disassembling the bolt, I would start there and
clean it and make sure it was put back together properly and moves smooth. If you have a strong thumb you can let the firing pin down and measure its protrusion but that wont tell you if its moving fast enough.

**wbm** · 08-21-2016, 04:59 PM

For what its worth, I dont think you have a head space problem.

After reading OP posts....Me neither.

The unmarked primers would be my main concern. Inconsistent primer strikes can screw up your grouping, yours goes
way beyond just inconsistent. My guess would be the bolt assembly either has a short firing pin (unlikely), a weak spring, improper assembly.

My guess would be your guess is correct.

**cowboybart** · 08-22-2016, 07:58 AM

I can't speak to the misfires.
On the bad grouping: Tighten your base screws one at a time and try to wiggle the base. Loosen that screw and tighten the next one - wiggle test. Do this with each screw to make sure your base screws are not bottoming out on the barrel and giving you an indication that they are tight. I had a model 10 that had a brand new PacNor barrel and it shot all over. The culprit was the front base screws were too long and bottoming on the barrel.

**samven** · 08-23-2016, 02:22 PM

I dont know if you got this sorted but I was just reading another thread were the guy had a similar problem and it turned out that he was not seating the primers all the way down so he was getting allot of misfires from the pin seating the primer without ignition. Might be something to check.