#1 - It wasn't an Executive Order, it was just a change of definition on the part of the Dept. of State.
#2 - We've been covering this for several days now: http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?52245-Home-gunsmithing
All, some very disturbing information, which will affect all in the shooting sports.
U.S. State Department’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC), which is primarily responsible for administering the Arms Export Control Act (AECA) and its implementing rules, the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). The upshot is that DDTC is labeling gunsmiths as “manufacturers” for performing relatively simple work such as threading a barrel or fabricating a small custom part for an older firearm. Under the AECA, “manufacturers” are required to register with DDTC at significant expense or risk onerous criminal Penalties:
http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/Appl ... 20(Publish).pdf
2. Registration Required – Manufacturing: In response to questions from persons engaged in the business of gunsmithing, DDTC has found in specific cases that ITAR registration is required because the following activities meet the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning of “manufacturing” and, therefore, constitute “manufacturing” for ITAR purposes:
a) Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms;
b) Modifications to a firearm that change round capacity;
c) The production of firearm parts (including, but not limited to, barrels, stocks, cylinders, breech mechanisms, triggers, silencers, or suppressors);
d) The systemized production of ammunition, including the automated loading or reloading of ammunition;
e) The machining or cutting of firearms, e.g., threading of muzzles or muzzle brake installation requiring machining, that results in an enhanced capability;
f) Rechambering firearms through machining, cutting, or drilling;
g) Chambering, cutting, or threading barrel blanks; and
h) Blueprinting firearms by machining the barrel.
So, if you own a lathe or milling machine would that be ” Use of any special tooling or equipment upgrading in order to improve the capability of assembled or repaired firearms” What about Brownells magnabit screwdrivers?
If you convert a bolt action rifle that holds 5 rounds to be a single shot, or convert a shotgun to only hold 3 rounds, you are now a manufacturer. (See b.) They don’t state increase round capacity, only change round capacity.
If you make a stock for a custom rifle or make one for that Parker, you are now a manufacturer, make a set of double set triggers, new barrel for a custom single shot…. You are now a manufacturer (See c.)
Buying a pre threaded/ pre chambered barrel for custom installation, as soon as you touch a lathe bit to that barrel to get correct headspace you are a manufacturer (see e. & h)
And god help you if you actually thread and chamber a barrel, you are definitely a manufacturer (see e. f. g. & h)
Do you reload? “ d. The systemized production of ammunition,” all reloading by definition is systemized (to arrange in or according to a system; reduce to a system; make systematic), guess what reloaders, you are now a manufacturer. There is no distinction between personal or commercial use, and no definition on quantity. So if you produce one round in a systematic manner you are a manufacturer.
If you look at Category I (j)(1) of the United States Munitions List (USML) (22 CFR § 121.1) there is no exemption for sporting arms, or antique arms:
121.1 General. The United States Munitions
List.
1.
(j) The following interpretations explain and amplify the terms used in this category and throughout this subchapter:
(1) A firearm is a weapon not over .50 caliber (12.7 mm) which is designed to expel a
projectile by the action of an explosive or which may be readily converted to do so.
Might want to contact your representatives.... that's what they are there for
#1 - It wasn't an Executive Order, it was just a change of definition on the part of the Dept. of State.
#2 - We've been covering this for several days now: http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?52245-Home-gunsmithing
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
Now its becoming clear why the potus is releasing all the prisoners.
He needs the space for us, the really bad guys.
And there is still about 5 months to go with his grand finale.
He just might leave closing the gate on the corral for the new Queen via the new court.
Laugh all you want, it might be the last one.
Have been working on an article...."In Anticipation of Hillary"....not related to economic or social programs but rather on 2nd Amendment "redefinition's" that would certainly come about with her administration and new additions to the Supreme Court. Executive orders or new laws would pale in comparison to the impact treaties brokered through the U.N. on gun control and a new ruling on the meaning of the words in the 2nd Amendment from a very liberal Supreme Court. Scary, but almost certain to be in our future.
Its not going to get better.
I always planed to die of a massive heart attack at an old age. Now it looks like I'll probably die near my front door in a hail of gunfire.
LOL Mozella....nah I doubt it....the sheep in California, New York, Massachusetts, etc. will likely bow down and turn their weapons in but in Alabama I don't think so....too risky to try and enforce that kind of stuff there....like here in New Mexico...ain't gonna happen. Well maybe in Santa Fe.
That's "some of the sheep". You stand corrected!! (I lost all of my guns in a boating accident)
And, for any of you that don't like Donald Trump, what he says, how he acts or just don't care for him in general AND instead are going to vote for Hillary Clinton, IMHO, you need to have your head examined and be beat viciously about the head and shoulders!! Vote for Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse or ANYBODY BUT HILLARY!! You're welcome.
Last edited by Nor Cal Mikie; 08-06-2016 at 06:51 AM.
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
^^^ I appreciate your sentiment, Mikie, but a non-vote or vote for anyone but TRUMP IS a vote for Hillary.
Frankly, I don't care for Trump's ways, as many don't, but I gotta believe we MUST vote for him, OR ELSE!
Last edited by foxx; 08-06-2016 at 12:15 AM.
AmenOriginally Posted by foxx
They are also coming after web sites such as this for publishing technical data that is "disbursed" internationally, beyond the control of the State Department. From what I can gather, even if Jim was willing to pay the $2,250 fee they charging gunsmiths, it would still be shut down because he can't keep it from getting into the hands of terrorists, etc.
This CA resident will NOT bow to anyone other than the Lord Jesus, on His return. Don't assume because the state is going to Hades, that we ALL agree with it. When you have the most populous state in the country, and MOST of them are liberals, being a "majority rules" system, we get out voted. There are millions of staunch conservative gun owners here, but we are badly outnumbered. That's what happens when the countries fruits and nuts all move "out west". There are more people in Los Angeles County alone, than 5 of other western states combined. That is only ONE COUNTY. There is over 9.8 million in LA county and over 37 million in CA. It's about a 70-30 split for libs vs conservatives.
If Hillary gets in, it won't matter what state we live in though, count on that!
Sobering ain't it? It is a phenomenon found in many states with large urban areas and is the main reason Obama is president and Hillary will be. That was exactly my point in using the word "sheep"....there are more of them than there are of us. Just because I, you and many others are not doesn't make a lot of difference in the long run.That is only ONE COUNTY. There is over 9.8 million in LA county and over 37 million in CA. It's about a 70-30 split for libs vs conservatives.
Last edited by wbm; 08-06-2016 at 06:06 AM.
[A non vote or vote for anyone but Trump is a vote for Hillary??]
I find that REAL hard to believe. Hillary gets one less vote!!
Oz never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.
Its also one less vote Hillary needs to get to win.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
BTW, let's try to keep the politics out of this as much as possible so we don't have to close it down. I try to be lenient as possible to let you discuss the gun rights aspect of things, but this one's getting more focused on politics and political views than gun rights.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
^^^^RIGHT!
If two people enter the voting booths, and only one person votes, who wins?
There are only 2 people capable of getting more votes than anyone else in this election. if 45% the voters votes for "A", 40% vote for "B", 10% for "C" and 5% for Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck or Peter Pan... Who wins?
Well, in this case, there is only one liberal GUN HATER on the ticket. ALL liberals will be voting for her, and 45% of the population ALWAYS votes democratic. Nearly 45% of the population almost always votes republican. Therefore, the election is going to be won by those who are not committed Republicans or Democrats. It is a fight for the remaining 10%. If there is more than one candidate splitting the remaining, non Hillary votes, she will end up with more than anyone else. She wins.
Any one who does not vote, (or votes for anyone other than Trump) votes for Hillary. It is a scientific / mathematical fact. I don't like it, but it is true.
Last edited by foxx; 08-06-2016 at 08:21 AM.
I understand, Jim. I have always respected, supported and appreciated that policy.
Unfortunately, I don't know how to do so in this case.
In any event, we have to be cognizant of some principles of political science. Whatever the fellow members views on any other issues in our society, THIS issue is ABSOLUTELY tied to this election.
I know YOU know this...
Oh, DAM it all the Hades!!!!!
I could cry.
Sometimes I do.
Last edited by foxx; 08-06-2016 at 08:23 AM.
Basic Member
Put it this way...
In any election, if there are three (or more) candidates, and only 1 of the candidates share your views on an issue, your candidate will win if the opposition splits their votes amongst themselves.
"A" represents "purple views", and gets 36% of the votes...
"b" represents "green views" and gets 20% of the votes...
"c" represents "green views" and gets another 20% of the votes...
"d" represents "green views" and gets the remaining 24% of the votes...
"A" wins the election with only 36% of the total electorate sharing those views.
If one side splits its votes, and the other does not, the other will win.
Therefore, if you want to rule a group or country, all you have to do is build a constituency of DEDICATED minority ( and possibly unrelated) views that will rally around your one candiate even though they don't necessarily share the views of the other aspects of the platform.
Last edited by foxx; 08-06-2016 at 08:52 AM.
Foxx,
Assuming that Trump does NOT drop out of the race before the election.
To me this is a prime example of the real dilemma and the danger we face related not only to the 2nd amendment but to several of the others. Someone, somewhere that has governmental authority "re-defines" what an amendment or law says. Rather than taking the language of an amendment or law at it's plain sense meaning it is re-defined in a legally binding manner that either enlarges or reduces the scope of the original. For example Hillary Clinton said recently that she is a supporter of the 2nd amendment but "like the other amendments it must be regulated." So, in order to "regulate" that amendment she must define whether to her it is an individuals right to keep and bear arms or not. Personally I think her public definition will have two forms...pre and post election. More important perhaps is the change she will bring about on the bench of the Supreme Court...as one commentator recently said a president is there for eight years maximum...a court justice for life. So what does this have to do with us as gun owners? Plan ahead!It wasn't an Executive Order, it was just a change of definition on the part of the Dept. of State.
Last edited by wbm; 08-06-2016 at 09:05 AM.
Right, but if he does drop out, will there be 1 person stepping up to represent his general views or will several? If two "step up" to replace him, they will split the vote. Hillary will win.
amen.
Actually if the republicans hadn't stayed home, Romney would have easily won the last election.
And if a few people like me hadn't been so pissed off at Bush 41 and voted for Perot, the Clintons
would never have become famous.
The numbers are there for us to win national elections if we turn out and vote.
The media will promote a hopeless situation, in order to keep us from voting, and they are all in on it including Fox.
Since when do attractive (news readers) which is all any of them are, get to have so much influence over elections.
Weve had our share of nice guys and look where we are. We don't need a nice guy to fix our problems, we need another Patten,
and Trump is the closest were going to get at this point.
Unfortunately over the last 6-8 decades we (The People) have allowed the government to predicate the idea that the Bill of Rights are rights given to us by them, not Rights guaranteed us by our creator as they were originally deemed by our founding fathers.
Just this morning I was reading an article online about how many of our civil rights would be violated by the No Fly List legislation currently being discussed by Congress. It was something like 6 or 7 specific rights protected under the Bill of Rights, with numerous others that could easily be argued as being violated as well.
For a body of people who take an oath and swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of these United States, it's astonishing how many of them deliberately try to attack and circumvent it.
"Life' is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne
“Under certain circumstances, urgent circumstances, desperate circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.” —Mark Twain
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