Went to range today with model 10 308. Successfully shot 17 rounds. When starting to load the next round, the bolt went forward and started to rotate closed and abruptly stopped at about the 2 o'clock position. Won't close all the way. Won't open. Now stuck with a live round in the chamber!!!
I know the chamber was empty. Bullet hole from previous round in target, put empty brass back on box. Every round had been gaged with a Wilson head space tool.
any ideas?
looks like a trip to the gunsmith tomorrow.
thanks
Set the rifle pointing up on a table or work bench outside. Take a soft mallet and bump the bolt handle to the open position(opposite of closed). Once it gets to the open position the bolt should slide rearward and extract/eject the case. If the bolt does not slide rearward softly tap on the handle to complete the opening. Expect powder to be thrown out on ejection. If required use a cleaning rod to tap the projectile out of the breach end.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
This got me wondering because I can't think of any reason why the bolt would cycle normally forward and when closing it half way it seizes.
If you jam a projectile deep into the lands, you would feel it, and should be able to unlock the bolt with a rubber mallet, and the bullets will remain in the rifling requiring a cleaning rod and mallet to get it out, like Robinhood stated.
Hope you get it fixed and be safe !
Found out why!
My local gunsmith (Jim at C&J Guns, Fraser, Michigan) was able to wrestle the bolt out. He found the brass case was oversize. I reload and this was the second time that case had been used. Since the first firing was in the same rifle, I did a neck resizing only. But just below the case shoulder, the diameter was oversized. From what I had been reading online, using a neck resizing was an acceptable practice and would reduce overworking the case by use of full length dies. Well, no more of that crap for me. Full size dies only!
I neck size. Before I leave the shooting site, I cycle all my fired brass through the chamber. If a case won't chamber, then I full length size. I have never had a fired case not chamber after only 2 firings. ????
I don't neck size either. Seems like a lot of possible issue and I shoot two rifles (barrel more accurate). A lot of disagreement on it.Originally Posted by Davehafelein
My take is is you do a minimal shoulder bump back you are good, brass last a long time (still have the anneal issue to stop neck splits, I am lucky, my brother has an Annie and will do that for me. He shoots the same caliber (or will) and has that down for both our common calibers.
What brand of brass were you using?
Check to make sure the sizing die did not damage the rim of the case. Cause it to make case sit further forward on bolt head. Just a thought
You deffinately have an issue, soft brass/over pressure etc. I've had casings go 25+ rounds in 308 and never had that issue. Tighter bolt when closing, yes. But not to the point where it closed the same distance as a no go gauge and locked up
Also be sure your primer was seated all the way
Federal
There is a good possibility that your die is screwed in to far. Put a case in the press and raise the ram to the top. For a bushing die remove the bushing and screw the die down until it stops holding the ram at the top. Back the die out an eighth turn. Lock down and reassemble the die. Go to work. Collet die is a similar process.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Use a FL die and get yourself a Headspace comparator or bump gauge to control the amount of shoulder bump. Bumping the shoulder 0.001"-0.003" will not over work the brass and you'll get dozens of reloads from Lapua or Winchester brass, as long as you anneal it once in a while.
I have a mixed feeling about Federal. Its very good brass in some ways, but its soft. I won't buy it. I get once used fairly often, I use it until it cracks at the base and that batch goes (and no I can't feel the developing crak inside the case)
I can see it as one shot stuff as it should expand and seal nicely. Just does not last (and I am doing minimal shoulder set back)
Its possible it might do ok in a single chamber but I shoot multiples.
I haven't had very many case failures that weren't due to the case just being worn out (maybe 5 or 6 failures over 20 years of reloading), but I think all of them were Federal.
I neck size for four shots and even on five I can close and open the bolt.
Personally, for a hunting rifle (not a target ONLY shooter) I would NEVER neck size only. Too much money, time and physical effort go into big game hunts to screw one up with something like this happening in the field.
I am gathering you are a new loader, based on the way you answer things. If that is the case, I would stick to FL sizing until you have more experience with reloading. Follow the procedure outlined by the die manufacturer in setting up the sizing die and stick with it. Trust me, unless you are in competition, most folks cannot tell the difference in accuracy between FL sized and neck sized.
Good quality brass, like Norma, will usually make more difference, than a sizing method. I have been loading my own since 1973, and have never needed to neck size brass. It might last a load or 2 longer, but I hunt, not compete, and brass for most calibers is cheap.
Just my $.02
thanks to all for your input.
There is a lot of debate on Neck vs Full sizing, even in the competition field.
I just go with full size and try to keep the bump back on the4 shoulder to .003 or .004.
I only bump a .001". Anything more only overworks the brass. Oh, and I rarely if ever NS only.
Bill
Each morning eat a live green toad, it will be the worst thing you'll have face all day.
My problem is that .001 is not enough for two chambers (same caliber)
Anything is better than the old thing about getting a solid cam over on the shell holder, I need to check that now I am setup with the bump tools.
.003 or .004 does not overwork the brass, it does it less and .001 is the least but even at .002 and in the same chamber I get hard to close bolt.
Its not one or the other its what works for any given rifle.
Can you explain what you mean by "Anything is better than the old thing about getting a solid cam over on the shell holder". Cam over has nothing to do with the shell holder although it can happen with the shell holder in place.
Also please explain how you bump it .001 or .002 and you still cannot close the bolt. You might need to explain your measuring process.
Have you ever annealed?
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
RCBS used to have you set to the shell holder and then (from memory) a quarter turn. That gave you a hard cam over and a lot of shoulder bump back.
I am going to check it on a sacrificial piece of brass just to see what it really came out to.
I can close the bolt on .002, its just hard and I don't care to do that. I don't like forcing things. I know there are zero chamber advocates and for them that's fine, I don't like it from a mechanical take due to the binding of the bolt and don't do it.
Anneal yes, but that has to do with neck not shoulder though it spills over onto the shoulder a bit.
Minimal setback is for the base crack problem.
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