Reply With QuoteGlad you started a new thread. Have been wanting to ask how you settled on the 6 CM for your next competition build (just curious). Something you and/or LW observed at matches?
this pic might get me in trouble lol....
specs...
surgeon 591 obviously
26" bartlein heavy varmint 1/7.5 twist
reamer...PT&G .275 neck .109 freebore
PT&G barrel nut
6mm JP enterprise recoil eliminator
ive got 64 rounds loaded and will be heading out here shortly...odd number and long story short...seating depth issues...if you buy widden dies(which are super nice BTW)and use the expander balls save yourself some head aches and polish the expanders before using them...mine were pretty rough.
40 of these rounds will be used as break in and to check velocities/pressure and need to be fire formed anyway...24 will be used for the charge weight test as i got the seating issues straightened out.
i will be running the charge test a little different this time as LW sent me some info on load development for the 6CM that looks very promising and will speed up the load development considerably so im going to try and get out twice early today and get this all dialed in.
ill get back to this later with specs and how its goes...supposed to be a 100 today and its already about 75!
Last edited by LongRange; 07-02-2016 at 02:48 PM.
Glad you started a new thread. Have been wanting to ask how you settled on the 6 CM for your next competition build (just curious). Something you and/or LW observed at matches?
Mike
Interesting. undercut just enough to adjust head space. The Rem-age nut works just fine
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
6mms dominate the matches and was my biggest reason...LW has been shooting a 243 for awhile and ive been thinking about going to a 6mm for several years but the 260 has preformed so well i just stuck with it. the deciding factor on going to the 6 creed for me was the cost of brass and i think the same reason for LW.Originally Posted by mike21
ive had several talks with LW about 6mms and we were both looking at the 6XC as well but it goes back to the price of brass and not that he or i can not afford it but you start loosing a few pieces of brass at each match and it adds up.
and ill prove in the next post that a nut on a remington is just as accurate as a shouldered barrel.
Last edited by LongRange; 07-02-2016 at 04:59 PM.
ok heres the whole target that i started with this morning...7 rounds shot at #5 to zero,test pressures,velocities and do my break in....
6 rounds shot after cleaning to foul and without the magneto speed shot at #4...the magneto speed threw me 4" high as verified on the next target pic left side #1
#7 was a seven shot group after the charge test...#9 was 5 rounds at 41g and 5 at 41.5 stacked in a mag 41 41.5 41 41.5 shot back to back
also keep in mind the necks are kinda screwed up on all of these groups and seating depths varied up to .005...i shot these more to fire form than for actual load development...
this is #9 the low shot was the first shot i adjust up 1/2 MOA and shot the rest....
the charge test...note the group just below the #2...POA was at #1 exactly 4 MOA low...so this is from the info LW sent me from a guy that says he has shot 10k rounds with the 6CM and obviously knows what hes talking about...anyway i shot the left side first and then the right side to confirm...as you can see it took a lotta rounds for the barrel to settle in and shoot...LW called 41.7g as the load after the left side...good call from 3000 miles away LOL...
if measured center to center none of those groups are bigger than a 1/2" and any one of them could be tuned with seating depth...
so i guess im now a 6mm fan boy...NO CASE prep,STUPID accurate and about half the recoil of the 260rem...ill get out tomorrow and shoot some groups at 550yds...check ESs and start getting dopes...
load for now...
105g berger hybrid .025 off the lands
41.7 grains H4350
CCI200
6mm hornady brass
showed 3033fps on first target not sure now ill check it tomorrow again
Last edited by LongRange; 07-02-2016 at 02:50 PM.
Nice. Why the nut though? Honest question not being a SA or judgmental.
i like knowing things for myself and i see on several other forums PPL(smiths included)saying that a barrel nut is not as accurate as a shouldered barrel so i decided to put it to the test...i ordered 2 blanks for this so the next barrel may be shouldered...not sure yet because from what im seeing(nut or shoulder)it dont seem to effect accuracy for the shooting i do.
when i told my smith i wanted a nut on this i seen his eye twitch a little so i think he may be one of the ppl that think the same and im pretty sure when i take him these targets on tuesday both eyes will twitch a little.
IMHO and with the barrels ive shot i think accuracy boils down to first...the barrel and running a very close second the smith that chambers and threads it...if a barrel is bad to start with its not going to shoot...if the smith just jams the reamer in and spins some threads on i doubt that barrel will shoot to its potential.
now for a serious bench rest shooter(which i am not)that nut may effect accuracy....i also believe that the shooter is the deciding factor in accuracy followed closely by his loading skills and how consistent they are.
Thank you!
Nice write-up LR. Looks like it's gonna be a shooter. Minimal case prep.....gotta love it! I'll definitely be keeping up with this. I know you still have your first savage, that helps but putting the nut on this one really helps 😉.
Anxious to see your long range results.
Scooter
I'm the Boss. I make sure what she wants gets done.
I got some solid numbers today..I'll post in the morning...3 matches back to back last month combined with the barrel issue...out 3 times the last two day with this and 12hr work days I'm burnt lol!!
It'll take a toll on ya, but you need to suck it up lol. J/K
Scooter
I'm the Boss. I make sure what she wants gets done.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
LR I think I would try 42.0 with just a touch more depth (.001-.002).
The 41.7 in the #1 target too much vertical but nice clover leaf in #2, and on the #4 target just a slight amount of vertical And on the other that was all conditions or you (lol) getting tired or in a hurry.
Just my thoughts on where I would head if it was me. with my new 6br just a .1 gr. and .002 depth brought me from mid 0.4 to low 0.2's and now has me thinking of some way to get to the 1's, haven't figured it out YET.
By the way nice shooting.
Upslide only you will miss the simplicity and accuracy of the 6mm's, some of us got tired of chasing our tails.
FROGGY
See profile for fire arms
Do it today there maybe no tomorrow
You already know you will lol.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
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im headed out the door now but until i get...back heres a little teaster...650yd target from yesterday....3 rounds in that tiny(lol)spot to the right...pulled shot 4 to the left and 5 all the way off the target to the right...held 1 moa left and again 3 in that tiny spot pulled 4 left again and 5 right AGAIN...pretty sure this is WAY more accurate than i am...i wasnt shooting very well yesterday but im pretty happy at this point...
Yobuck is a f in idiot
Its Not the Violence that sets Men apart...
Its the Distance They are Willing to travel!
Quick group this morning. 5 shots standing off my tripod at 175yds. Target had also fallen forward and was leaning towards me at about 45*. I'll take it off the tripod. I need to get a tripod head that can support my 17lbs rifle.....
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Oh I'm not chasing my tail at all. I've got a 6.5 that shoots lights out. That's the problem. I don't want to start all over. Or burn barrels up. Lol
yes you will LOL!!
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
I will not build a 6mm.
42g takes me outta my speed limit that i set at 3050 and youll see below how everything worked out.
6mm bolt...but shoot what you have now and get some trigger time...and yes ive been shooting matches for about 3yrs now(F-class and long range varmint)as well as shooting seriously in the hills for about 9yrs but i played with a lot of different loading tools and did a lot of testing or id be much farther along in the match seen...im pretty happy with my first showing in a PRS style match but have a lot of work to do to be able to place higher or even think about shooting a real PRS match LOL.
i got out this morning and finished shooting the new brass and also shot some groups at 650yds...
first...yesterday with 41.7g everything seemed to be going right with what i thought was not enough wind to cause it but i chalked it up to wind or me pulling right plus the barrel had sped up just a little and was outta the speed limit i set so i loaded 5 at 41.5g and 5 at 41.7g to shoot over the magneto speed...
the trigger locked up on the 5th round of the 41.7g(low right)load but as you can see the 41.5g load puts me back in my speed node and shoots better...the lower groups were from yesterday...
41.5g........41.7g
3058........3080
3052........3074
3068........3051
3056........3060
3063........3075
this is 41.7gs at 650yds...the first one of 6 was off target to the right...i dialed 1.5moa left and #2 went in the orange and you can see #3 #4 #5 and #6 to the right and stringing...my target flag was pointing straight at me and only a light wind so again i shrugged it off...
this is the 41.5g load at 650yds with no wind dialed or held and the same wind straight at me and light...problem...the trigger locked again after the first 3 closest to the orange...ive got the over travel set to tight because this time it wasnt dirty...cleaned it again and shot the other three and again you can see the 41.5g load shoots better even with the trigger issue and being frustrated,resetting blah blah blah...also as i said the wind was about the same on this target but no hold so it was the 41.7g load shooting right more than me...or thats what im going with anyway LOL....
i used new brass for the chrony numbers and 1x fired for the groups and made sure that felt seating pressure and depths were the same and charge weights were exact...41.5g is the clear winner...i may try seating .005 both ways but im happy with this load and even happier that its working so well with NO case prep but as OCD as i am i may clean up the necks...i set my tool up last night to clean up 40-50% of the neck.
A 6mm won't win you matches over a 6.5. The shooter will. Both work equally well if you can shoot them. I have a .243 and a couple 6.5 Creedmoors. Just different tools to grab depending on the match being shot. Have had a .243 since 2005 for matches and the Creedmoors since 2008.
Nice looking and shooting set up though. I am sure it will serve you well. My next 6mm will be a Creedmoor.
The 6mm definitely provide a slight edge. I see it in the score card very often. Take a years worth of matches and 6mm will be at the top at least 70% of the time. You'll have 6.5's in there as well or even an occasional 308 or some other cartridge, but the majority at the top are normally 6mm.
The fact is if you take someone who was highly competitive with a 6.5 or 308 and give them a 6. Their scores will further improve simply due to the increase in the hit percentage within 800yds which is what most of our shooting is. At 800yds and in you could say the following, 308 has a 60% chance, 6.5 has a 70% chance, and 6mm has an 80% chance of hitting. That's difference in the calibre choices for tactical precision matches.
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thanks Rob
i agree 100% it boils down to the shooter when all else is equal but like LW pointed out and I've seen first hand the 6mm dominates the long range game...I'm shooting 5.5moa flatter with the 6cm at 850yds compared to the 260 barrel I just pulled off this action...I've shot a 260 for a long time and placed 6th out of 22 shooters in my first practical tactical match last weekend...as I said I agree it's more shooter at the end of the day but I expect to do better with the cm as its a lot easier to drive...like going from a bicycle to a nascar lol...next matches are in August but I think I'll shoot a 1000yd F-class...not for score but just to see how it performs.
Flatter is nice in UKD matches but it seems like all the PRS matches now either give range or allow LRFs. In the few instances that you shoot UKD at matches the flatter trajectory will help. Running a 105 Hybrid at 3050fps gives you about 7.2 mils to 1000 and 1.9 mils in a 10mph wind. With my 140 ELD-M load at 2850fps I am at 8 mils of elevation and 1.9 mils for the 10mph wind. You gained .8 mils flatter trajectory or about 29" flatter. But the wind is the same and the wind is the most important thing. If running the 6mm gives you a mental edge then go for it but the reality is that it's not any real advantage unless you get a UKD stage. Sorry. Don't want to burst your bubble as the 6mm Creed is a very good round but you aren;t gaining much except some elevation over the .260. Been running "PRS" matches since 2003 and have played with them in matches over the years. The time I pull out the .243 is for flatter trajectory only.
you are running about 130fps faster than I was in my 260.
i know you know your stuff when it comes to all of this and I respect that but(and not being a smart a$$ it's an honest question)if the 6.5mm is all that then why are more shooters shooting 6mms over the 6.5mm? Especially since the 6.5mm has better barrel life.
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