Hi guys,
Just bought new 12fv 223 and need to hand load some 55 60 grain bullets. Let me know where your at thank in advance fellas.
Hi guys,
Just bought new 12fv 223 and need to hand load some 55 60 grain bullets. Let me know where your at thank in advance fellas.
That is a 9 twist?
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
Yep
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...y-Expectations
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...-Savage-12-FCV
http://www.predatormastersforums.com...&Number=958684
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...-savage-mod-12
http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/t...?TOPIC_ID=6896
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-495001.html
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486143
etc., etc., etc.
That thing called google
I will just tune the load done it many times before thanks.
Thanks for that but there is a reason I asked here...Originally Posted by WV1951
How about any start load in any manual you own. It won't be any worse for accuracy than any internet suggestion.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
I agree to an extent. I have seen FGMM shoot 1/2 MOA in many rifles. It always helps to tune the load for your stuff though.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I've seen it too, but.... Factories don't use canister grade powder like we do. They also don't load powder in Grains, like most do. So not the same thing, or same way to get there.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
Odd, I have loaded hundreds of Federal brass, 4064, 210M loads copying the precise charge weights that Federal uses and have achieved the same point of impact and the same level of accuracy. At some point your strict adherence to a set of rules that are based on your experience will have to yield. In some cases, Like me, you are incorrect.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
I make no bones that you can achieve the same velocity, or point of impact; but that isn't because there is only one way to do any given thing. There is only one major ammo company that (at least used to) buy canister grade powder, that is Nosler. And despite their advertising to the contrary, even they load by volume. Take the factory tour, watch them fire -up the Dillon's and load by volume(CC's) of powder.
Extruded powder is designed around geometry, and that's how you can control burning rate. Volume will let them compensate for shifting BD between lots.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
The two loads my son has developed so far in his 12FV, 223 are both 53 gain.
53 grain V-Max (excellent B.C.) set about .020 off, and IMR3031 near max load per Hornaday manual. Winchester brass, CCI400
53 gain Sierra HP (p/n 1400) set a bit closer, and 3031 or 8208XBR around 3100 fps. Win brass, CCI400 or BR-4
Model 12FV, Revolution thumb hole stock, bedded with Devcon 10110, Vortex Crossfield II, 4.5-18X40 FFP, Harris bi-pod. Action torqued 45 in lb front, 20 in lb rear. Lift kit on bolt, polished firing pin.
Groups in zero's and low 2's at 100 yds.
With a little set up work, you'd be amazed how well this entry level Cabelas special can shoot, especially if you have young eyes, (I don't).
YMMV.
Thanks for you straight answer just the reason I asked. All of the relevant info and more. Btw my eyes aren't what they used to be either lol.
I get very good results with 69gr SMK's over 25gr of Varget. I haven't tried any of the light weight bullets yet.
Since we're discussing factory loads here, one in particular shoots extremely well out of both my bolt 223's . American Eagle 50 grain tipped varmint p/n AE223GTV. This load has put more than a few 3 shot groups in the zero's at 100 yds, and shoots out to 500 yds very well. And those produced today, seem to be some of the best I've seen so far (look for head stamp with two dots on either side of "FC".
This load is not promoted by Federal on their website, you'll not find any reference to it, but it is widely available online and big box stores like Cabelas, Bass pro, Academy Sports.
I have disassembled this round, and reassembled it only to have it shoot like crap. One thing I've noticed is that they use something like Asphalt on the inside of the neck, even though they list no neck sealant on their spec list. (I had to email Federal to get the specs on this load)
I've read that crimping necks really helps with shot to shot consistency, but I never hear about precision shooters crimping their hand loads.
Question for you guys with decades of experience; is the use of asphalt coating inside the neck a trick to improve neck tension or starting pressures consistency?
Why is it that when I use an inertia puller to remove the bullet from this cartridge, then reload it back as it came, and it shoots poorly?
I didn't intend to hijack this thread. Seems to me this is relevant to OP's question.
Sealant could be for a few reasons. Uniform start & water sealant is most likely.
Federal cases are VERY soft, sometimes dangerously so in the head. At any rate the soft case will obturate quicker and seal to the chamber. This is good for accuracy, not so much for case longevity to the reloader.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
I've reloaded the brass saved from the Federal America Eagle loads over a dozen times with no loose pockets, or split necks. But then, I only neck size. I have annealed after a dozen or so loads on some and found them a tad more accurate. Most of these were loaded to max + at one time or another while working up a load, still no looseness or obvious head expansion.
The only reason I toss them is the A.E. made last year were many times too short (1.738) and had flash holes that were consistently off center, sometimes by half a hole! This years brass, identified by two "dots" on either side of the "FC" head stamp, is much more consistent in length averaging 1.742 and the flash holes are well centered.
I am harvesting all this new brass and cycling out the old with "one dot" on either side of the "FC".
I have had good results with 27.8 gr of CFE223 under a 55gr sierra Blitzking, best load in 3 of my 4 223s the other one just wont let go of h335.
Mike
Just for the record, You quote listing me as the poster is modified.
When do you think the people writing reloading manuals and the 10's of thousands of reloaders/competitive shooters will catch on?
Outside of bench rest cartridges, can you give me an estimate of the number of top rifle shooters that do not weigh powder?
Out of all of the people that read this forum, how many do you think have abandoned their scales? I admit I have pondered it but the success I have had by weighing powder with the cartridges I choose has me satisfied.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive and well.
BACK to the question at hand:
24.4 grains of H4895 in Winchester/Lake City/Lapua brass using CCI benchrest primers capped with a Sierra 55 grain Blitzking. This load has MOA/SUBMOA in 5 different AR's and Two bolt action Savages. Similar results with 24.7 grains of Varget in same setup. These loads work in MY GUNS and in reality are very mild loads. To clarify, the Lake City brass is sorted in the sense that it is all 2012 manufacture. On calm mornings I've shot 300 yard groups in the 1.2 inch range with this load in my 12 FLV.
Another load that works great is 24.8 grains of H4895 with a 69 grain Matchking. This group was shot at 300 yards. I use CCI benchrest primers for all of my "accuracy loads". Similar results with 25 grains of Varget.
Forgot to mention rifle used for this group was my Savage 12FLV in a Choate Tactical stock. Mods are extended bolt handle, lift kit (forgot about that!) and Rifle Basix trigger.
[IMG][/IMG]
Last edited by copterdrvr; 06-29-2016 at 07:58 AM. Reason: more info
Back on subject, I've been using 69grain TMK and 25.9 gr of Varget, making about 3125 FPS, Win Brass, CCI BR-4 or CCI-400 and holding 1/3 moa out to 200 yds (so far). Next test will be 300 yds, then off to the 1000 yd range.
The TMK's shoot much flatter than the SMK, in my experience, but I've shot the SMK's out to 750 yds and found them to be very accurate.
T10 did you have to start from scratch with the load development when you went with the TMK's? I picked up a box of them and tried some already proven powder loads and they didn't do NEARLY as well as the SMK's. Which way did you end up having to go to get comparable results?
Copterdrvr
Yes, started over for same reason you discovered. Switched powders too, from 8208 to Varget.
That seems pretty fast for that bullet. What chrono are you using to verify speed?
And I'd like to see the info showing Varget is no more temp stable than H335. I've seen different tests showing otherwise. Additionally, velocity swings with temp change more with the H335 than with Varget from what I and fellow shooters have seen pressure wise in addition to velocity changes.
Read FAQ #5
http://www.ramshot.com/faq/
Some of Denton's work can still be read here:
https://www.shootingsoftware.com/tech.htm
It's about application. The Naval Warefare Testing Center tests for temp swings much larger than what Hodgdon says they test at. They also show pressure traces for all of the tests, and actually list number of shots, etc to make it a valid comparison. Most don't think that "temp stable" powders begin to slow down with increased temps(to a point), but they do, and one of the ways you can tell how stable they are in an application.
Again, this is about application. It doesn't mean that Varget won't get you fine accuracy in a 223, it in fact can. But the notion of "it's stable and therefore magic everywhere" is Hooey. Unless you love to cook your ammo in a hot chamber, the whole thing is overblown for most of the fine folks out there in TV land.
I'm a firm believer in the theory that if it bleeds, I can kill it.
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