headspace or actual bullet

[cwop]

i am putting together a 20 practical using a savage target action and a new shilen barrell. i have been thinking. i am using a lapua 223 brass and while i have the pacific no go guauge why not just use the bullet i am going to use to set headspace?

does this sound reasonable?? seems to me to be the best way to go!

thanks

bob

ps. thanks to pd for the advice regarding the medalist stock fitting a savage target action which neither stockys or the manufacture will admit it fits perrectly.

[dolomite_supafly]

I take brass that has been fired then FL sized using the dies I am going to use and then use that piece of brass to set headspace. That way the brass doesn't get worked as much as it normally would. On my 223 it shoots great and other than it will not chamber factory ammo I have no issues. This isn't a big deal as I reload everything I shoot. I only do this for the rifles I plan on reloading for.

If I ever decide I want to shoot factory ammo I'll just back the headspace off and use a guage.

Dolomite

[bsekf]

The bullet has nothing to do with headspace, you headspace on the shoulder of the case. Full length resize with the dies you will be using and use case as a gauge. If you have the go-no-go gauge why not use it.

Bill

[tammons]

Use the go/no-go gage.

[82boy]

why not just use the bullet i am going to use to set headspace?
does this sound reasonable?? seems to me to be the best way to go!

Are you talking about using a loaded round!
NEVER NEVER NEVER work on a gun with loaded ammo in the area!!!!!!!!

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Like Bill said, the bullet has nothing to do with setting the headspace. The headspace is set off the shoulder of the case. Use gauges if you've got them but
if you don't have gauges, use a "full length sized case". My gauges get used by other folks more than me.
When I use them,(gauges) I set the headspace then go back and reset to the sized case. My rigs wouldn't chamber a factory loaded round because the headspace is set pretty tight. Tight headspace = less brass movement and longer brass life. Shoulder bump and neck size. (throw in a body size when needed if the case gets snug in the chamber)

[bigedp51]

I think cwop was referring to an unfired case and not the bullet.

The average factory case is .002 "shorter" than actual minimum rifle headspace to ensure it will chamber in "ANY" rifle chamber.

Below a unfired Winchester .308/7.62 cartridge in a RCBS Precision Mic, and a unfired commercial case next to a military 7.62 unfired case. The military cases are longer and average 1/2 thousandths under minimum SAAMI headspace. (military cases are designed to shoot in longer fatter chambers)

[img width=600 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP5130-1.jpg[/img]

Below would be actual rifle chamber minimum headspace (zero mark on gauge)

[img width=600 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP5157-1.jpg[/img]

Below the new unfired factory Winchester .308/7.62 cartridge is in the gauge and measures .002 smaller than minimum headspace.

[img width=600 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP5254.jpg[/img]

A fired case will be to the left of the "zero" mark indicating how far the shoulder was blown forward on firing when measured. The Precision Mic helps you set up your reloading dies for the amount of shoulder "bump" you wish to push the shoulder "back".

Below custom shell holders to control how much the shoulder is pushed back on resizing.

[img width=600 height=410]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/7-17-201054345PM.jpg[/img]

Below, same idea using headspace control shims to be placed under your dies lock ring for resizing.

[img width=600 height=350]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/7-17-201054719PM.jpg[/img]

You do not need to get overly carried away about adjusting your rifles headspace when you do not have custom made reloading dies.
NOTE: ANY commercially manufactured reloading dies are made to plus or minus figures and striving for "zero" headspace is unnessary.

I reload for my British Enfield rifles that can have as much as .020 head gap clearance or air space between the bolt face and the rear of the case and still meet military headspace standards.

I cheat excess headspace by fire forming my rimed .303 cases with a small rubber o-ring around the rim of the case which holds the case against the bolt face.

[img width=600 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP5096.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP6290.jpg[/img]

As long as you have a dry oil and grease free chamber some times the word "headspace" is meaningless.





As a reloader I like having tight headspace BUT .001 to .003 over minimum headspace when setting up your Savage or Stevens rifle can be very easily taken care of when resizing your cases with the proper equipment.

Fire forming your cases with your bullets touching the rifling will remove any excess headspace and a full length resizing die can be set up to actually make your cases longer than when fired.

[cwop]

thanks

ill go up to the neighbors and have him work through this with me. he has reloaded for 40 years.

i got my question answered as i thought.

bob

[319]

I am a little confused. If factory ammo is 2 thou below minimum head space how/why would you set your head space as to not allow a factory round to be chambered? Doesn't that cause unsafe conditions? Obviously it doesn't or you wouldn't be doing it, but please explain how that works.

[bigedp51]

319

If you use an unfired case to set your headspace you will end up with the headspace set below minimum headspace. (too tight)

If you use a full length resized case to set your headspace you still will be in an unknown plus or minus twilight zone area.

The proper method is to use GO and NO-GO gauges or cheat a little bit and use tape or some sort of shim material on your GO gauge to cross check.

Now read this carefully, with a RCBS Precission Mic you can get away without headspace gauges by using an unfired case by measuring the case in the Precission Mic and adding tape and remeasuring the case. A resized case can also be used as long as it is measured in the Precission Mic.

You do not need to be down to the .0001 of an inch, most of you are buying factory replacement barrels and not custom made barrels for target and bench rest shooters with custom chambers.

Remember, the replacement barrels you are installing for the most part have standard chambers.(plus or minus)
Your reloading dies are made to resize for standard chambers. (plus or minus)

So when you set your headspace remember you still have those plus or minus to play with meaning .001 or .002 thousandths MORE than minimun won't hurt anything.

[319]

Gotcha! Thanks for the info!

[Don - LongRangeSupply]

If you want to be able to chamber pretty much all factory ammo, use gauges.

If you want to fit YOUR brass sized in YOUR dies to YOUR barrel for the longest brass life and best potential accuracy, use a handful of full length sized cases to set your headspace, not a gauge.

I only have ONE gun that I want to be able to chamber factory ammo in and on that one I used gauges. On ALL my other Savages I use cases for setting headspace.