X Caliber

[rjtfroggy]

I was going to add this to another thread but decided to make it a stand alone.

There have been questions about Criterion vs. X Caliber so here is some real world results, for the past 3 years I was shooting a Criterion 243 match barrel in short range BR and my scores were decent and when working up loads was getting anywhere from 0.163 - 0.165 5 shot groups not always but enough to say this particular barrel shot 0.2 on a regular basis. This was with a 105 Berger bullet at 100 yards with 2890 fps. Problem which I knew going in was barrel life and at 1440 the barrel was gone throat eroded to almost nothing and the first 2.5 inches of rifling was smooth.

Knowing this was about to happen I called Apache and made a some what odd request to him, I told Jim make me a 6br 7 twist X Caliber when he had time to do it no hurry as long as I had it for this years season ( ordered 8-18 received some time in Feb ) and all I can say is WOW. workmanship is second to none. This barrel gave me a 5 shot group that was so tight I didn't even bother to measure and this past weekend shot in a BR match 100 yards score was 245 and my 200 yard score in the pouring rain and wind was 243, for a agg. of 488 out of 500, aside from load development this was it's first competition. The next comp. isn't until the end of July and by that time it should be wearing a new Weaver XR 46x instead of the T36.

This also shows that a Savage can compete in BR. matches, because I am not the best shooter out there, but I do enjoy shooting.

So my hat is off to Jim not only for the outstanding workmanship but for recommending this barrel for the type shooting I do.

Now onto a Criterion I have been working on for over a year, 308 Win. 10 twist that to date likes nothing it is being fed( all Sierra), thought I had finally figured it out but not to be so I will try one maybe two more loads if it becomes a no go I will contact Criterion but in the mean time screw on a Douglas select match 308 and start over.

I want this one for 200 yard score matches (bigger hole) because my misses the other day would have been 10's if it was 30 cal instead of 6mm.. This will be on a single shot model 12 that is supposed to go to SSS for a T & T if I ever get the call to send it.
Sorry for the long winded post.

[RC20]

I don't mind the long winded at all, paragraph breaks are helpful but the type of information is invaluable, so thank you.

My X Caliber 308 barrel is coming from Apache as well (sorry Dennis for the heckling but I want to see if its me or my 12FV that is not shooting well!)

More or less I was getting dialed in with the 12FV with groups 5/8 and less consistently and then they opened up and have not been able to get them back.
I am running a range of bullets from Sierra 175s to Hornady 168 match, hunting 180s lead and the plastic tip (A max I think)


So while the Shilen 30-06 Bull is in production (6 weeks or so) for the 111 BTH project, I am going to put the X Caliber 308 on that chassis and see what it does.


I went with the Shilen as they seem to have good solid barrels, not looking for super tack, just something that with the right setup and I do my end it can shoot 1/2 MOA or better.

Accurate Barrels down in Louisiana came up with the X-Caliber in 308 and the comments seemed to have been positive, so I went with that. Had an option on a Criterion but liked the more positive comments on the X caliber and Apache did and is doing the work (shortened it up 2 inches).

I will also note that Dennis has been very nice to work with and also sent on some load information as a start.

Good to know those come from people who do good work and care.

It should be here in time to shoot this weekend and I will post the results.

And I to apologies' for long winded, but I also think a narrative of how we go about this and make the decisions helps others who are on the same patch.

Old hands may have it figured out well for what works for them but newer people (like me!) don't have that base yet and multiple views help people select the path that works for them.

[LoneWolf]

I have not shot any Criterion Barrels, but I am on my 3rd XCaliber and Jim will be making my barrels from here on out. I took a 243Win Xcaliber he did, fired 10rds to break it in and chrono it before a match, and then took 3rd in a long range steel match varying from 200yds out to 900yds. This was with zero load Dev shooting the 105Hybrid. We're working on the 6 Creed platform for my future barrel and I will be boasting the Apache Gun Works logo this up coming season.

[DrThunder88]

Aw man, that's just going to make him busier!

I kid. He deserves notoriety for the quality of his work and the rewards for how much of it he does. All of the barrels I've received from Jim have been GM, and they've been very good performers. I am going to get my mitts on my first Apache X-caliber barrel soon, and the wait has not tempered my anticipation.

[LongRange]

nice shooting froggy!! also be interested to hear the end results with the 308 barrel.

[rjtfroggy]

LoneWolf funny but I too found the 105 Berger Hybrids shot extremely good from the 243 Win. shooting at close to 2900 fps, tiny groups always.
Now with the 6br they just would not group under 0.070 some were smaller but not by much and not many. I think it had to do with low fps., but they were over book max for IMR 4895.
With the 6 BR I'm at 2709 with SD of 9 and this thing will shoot the 105 VLD Target bullet into the same hole most of the time. When I ran the Magneto speed on it I fired 20 rounds with it on 3 shots out of the group first low , second a 1/8" higher and the next 18 were covered by a $.25(quarter) with room to spare, this in the pouring rain with steady 10-12 winds.
The following week I shot 10 rounds five on the sighter portion of the target the next five for score-small enough group didn't bother to measure and the next five all in the ten rings. Good enough for the match.

[LoneWolf]

That's my consensus. I went to the 115DTAC as it does better for me across all ranges and has a better splash on steel.

[Dennis]

Just a note on my 243. Below is a group with 107 SMK's. It shoots like this anytime I am on my game. In fact, all of my 6mm's will shoot like this or better. My 243 loves 107's, 55 & 70 grain Nosler Balistic Tips. It's a good all around cartridge. I will have to admit my 6 Dasher is my favorite, but it's a hard decision to decide which one to shoot. Hunting, my 243 is #1, and usually take 70 grain NBT's, small game, but with the right placement, it will take bigger game with no problem.

Jim is second to none in my book. I am glad to be associated with him and were looking forward to producing quality barrels in a very decent timeframe. The best is yet to come, might be around the corner.

Dennis

[IMG][/IMG]

[cs700]

I'm a little late seeing this thread but had to post about my X-caliber barrel. Precut by X-caliber & sold to me by Dennis. 6BRXshooting 107SMKs. Today I got challenged to see if it would shoot 1/4 MOA at 307 yards. I believe it did. I also wanted to see how it did in about a 8 to 10mph cross wind with heavy mirage at the same 307 yards with my last 2 shots of the day.
Thanks Dennis for selling me this barrel & the advise you gave me on the load data.

[rjtfroggy]

Nice shooting.
You do realize that first picture is a Federal Offense.

[LoneWolf]

Nice shooting.
You do realize that first picture is a Federal Offense.

The bullet that put the whole in it was worth more than the quarter itself lol.

Sent from my 710C using Tapatalk

[Stockrex]

I am sure CS found that coin in the range,
good shooting cs,


froggy, what powder are you using to shooting the 6 br?

[cs700]

I am sure CS found that coin in the range,
good shooting cs,

Yep sure did. Right next to the endangered turtle in the road that got moved so it wouldn't be stopped being endangered.

[rjtfroggy]

Stockrex after a few mix ups ten twelve years ago I only keep one powder at the bench- IMR 4895.
with many hours of loading and even more testing loads I have found a load for every thing I shoot from 22 hornet to 7mm Rem. mag.. They may not be the fastest loads but speed does not usually equate to accuracy.

[RC20]

Something that has crossed my mind as well. I don't care about speed, accuracy is what I want.

[darkker]

I don't care about speed, accuracy is what I want.

Bravo!

A fast miss, is never impressive!

[RC20]

For target shooing, the slowest you can get there and be happy with the results the easier it is on your barrel.

The only shot I ever missed, if it had been a fraction slower and dropped another 1/4 inch or less it would have broken the back bone and saved us running through the woods in the dark chasing the un cooperative beast down.

That in turn led to an all night skinning session with a flashlight, minimum skinning tools, 20 degrees with our backs to a creek in serious bear country.

[RC20]

Initial X-Caliber Bull, 26 inch , 308 at 1-10 Twist.

Shooting conditions pretty much sucked for a new barrel check. On the other hand, shooting is seldom perfect so I continued (not to mention anxious to get time on the barrel)

Range was 108 yds (I can extend the 100 yd range that far before I get to the steep part of the bank)

Wind was erratic, 25MPH +, gust probably to 35, from the left, target shifting back and forth 4 - 6 inches at times. High gusts and swirls and big dust storms rolling across the berm from left to right.

Range itself was blustery, targets getting knocked down at the 25 and 50 yd line as well. Sometimes you can hit a sweet spot at 90 or 75. Heck with it.

My impression is that the barrel shoots everything (4 different bullets and powders) l. Only one load was erratic, all pretty much Sub MOA. Best I think was 5/8. Not all shot great but COAL adjustment and it shot 7/8 on everything. Varget, IMR 4895, AA4064 and R17 (that's intended to be my hot long range load if I ever get to the 1000 yd range up North).

As routine I cleaned the barrel before install, clean as a whistle. Threads all good, no hang ups with new nut, receiver and it were good. Overall perfect condition.

While not a barrel aspect directly, the BTH stock and the barrel are a good balance, easy to get onto target and stay (as close as you can under those conditions). Its going to be a good setup.

Pretty much decided me on a laminated stock to replace the Savage 12FV cheap stock. This was just a trial putting it on the 111 action that gets the 30-06 Bull when it comes in (also gets the channel set for carving out and won't have to do that again).

I will review the best loads and focus on those for next stage of development.

[Dewey7271]

Nice to see someone finally hit the coin.
Man, bet I've seen hundreds of dimes and quarters on targets but that's one of the first with a hole in it.

[RC20]

Well they keep moving them around!

I shot a card in half when I was around 7 with my moms 22. 25 feet as I recall. Lost it in the moves we made after that.

Good rifle and lucky shot though it all had to be right too.

[DanSavage]

Bahh, you just file down the burr on the quarter and fill with J-B weld,, still could use it at a gas station. lol

[RC20]

What I have found is for some reason with the original Savage barrel, I got lined in real good then lost it.

It may be that I was on a ragged edge and it only took tempura change to shift it off.

As of now, the X-Caliber is shooting neck and neck with the original Savage.

As I get rounds nailed down (charge and COAL) they both respond if I am doing it right. COAL for the Savage OEM barrel is shorter than the X-Caliber.

Got some down to 3/8, both barrels.

That says something for Savage OEM and the X-Caliber is equal for sure and if not better that is me. Once you are at 3/8 it takes a lot to get tighter, scope is limiting the X-Caliber right now, I may switch but will see.

In the meantime technique continues to get refined, both guns are in a Thumbhole now so there is consistent stock that takes the shift to a totally different stock out of the issue.

It would be fun to get to .250 consistently, goal is sub 5/8 and enjoy whatever comes out below that.

[LoneWolf]

I could almost pick anyone of these loads to run competitively, but I think I'm going with 42grs.

This is my 243win 8 twist XCaliber with the new 115gr DTAC RBT. Looking forward to getting this bullet into a match next month.




"The strength of the wolf is the pack, but the strength pack is the wolf"

Proudly sponsored by Apache Gun Works

[rjtfroggy]

Nice groups Lonewolf.
Take a look at some of my X Caliber 6mm br groups posted in the thread on Axis accuracy.
Jim does some awful nice work on these barrels and with a little work one can sure make them shoot good.

[LoneWolf]

Thanks Froggy, I actually had fun shooting groups today. I only loaded 25rds and shot these groups from a cold bore, so that's consistency for you. Flyer on the 42grs group was the last shot of the day. Started getting excited and jammed it I guess. Oh well, in certainly happy with it.


"The strength of the wolf is the pack, but the strength pack is the wolf"

Proudly sponsored by Apache Gun Works